2023-12-01, 16:59
  #9565
Avstängd
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av SnakePlisssken
Varför har det blivit färre vittnen med tiden? Har 20% av vittnena dragit tillbaka sina vittnesmål?
Till er andra.

Jag har räknat ner antalet till "ca 40" eftersom att de vittnen som på plats stod nära JFK när han träffades i huvudet inte stod riktigt så nära, samt att de kanske påverkades av den chockartade dramatiken.

Så.
Citera
2023-12-01, 17:31
  #9566
Medlem
SnakePlissskens avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Till er andra.

Jag har räknat ner antalet till "ca 40" eftersom att de vittnen som på plats stod nära JFK när han träffades i huvudet inte stod riktigt så nära, samt att de kanske påverkades av den chockartade dramatiken.

Så.

OK - jag får ändå inte ihop dina påståenden. Tidigare har du angett att det avser ca 20 läkare och annan sjukvårdspersonal på Parkland, samt ca 20 läkare och annan sjukvårdspersonal på Bethesda samt 3 patologer på Dallas Methodist Hospital.
Bara det får jag till mer än 40 personer.

Du skrev här ovanför att det avser "detektiver, livvakter, läkare, sköterskor och övrig sjukhuspersonal från tre sjukhus och två federala säkerhetstjänster".

Nu menar du att det helt plötsligt bara handlar om 40 vittnen - trots att det tidigare var fler än så bara bland sjukhuspersonalen redan innan man adderar detektiver, livvakter och personal från två federala säkerhetstjänster.?

Vad hände?

Intressant är väl att du även verkar ha svängt ifråga om vad det var alla de där vittnena såg och sa?
Häromdagen skrev du att:
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Ja, nästan samtliga av de detektiver, livvakter, läkare, sköterskor och övrig skjukhuspersonal från tre sjukhus och två federala säkerhetstjänster som på mycket nära håll observerade JFKs huvudskador vittnar om ett stort gapande hål i höger bakhuvud.

Däremot så var det få av dessa som vågade säga att det var ett utgångshål.
Men tittar vi tillbaks på dina tidigare uttalande så får man en annan historia;

Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Det är där som samtliga närvarande vittnen från FBI, Secret Service, medicinsk expertis på Parkland, Methodist Hospital och Bethesda, förlägger det massiva utgångshålet i JFK:s huvud.

Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Ett femtiotal vittnen som sinsemellan oberoende rapporterar ett stort gapande hål i JFK's höger bakhuvud ---> utgångshål/tangent-hål ---> skott framifrån/från sidan ---> fler än en skytt ---> konspiration.
Har de ändrat sin utsaga eller vad har hänt?
Citera
2023-12-01, 18:03
  #9567
Avstängd
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av SnakePlisssken
OK - jag får ändå inte ihop dina påståenden. Tidigare har du angett att det avser ca 20 läkare och annan sjukvårdspersonal på Parkland, samt ca 20 läkare och annan sjukvårdspersonal på Bethesda samt 3 patologer på Dallas Methodist Hospital.
Bara det får jag till mer än 40 personer.

Du skrev här ovanför att det avser "detektiver, livvakter, läkare, sköterskor och övrig sjukhuspersonal från tre sjukhus och två federala säkerhetstjänster".

Nu menar du att det helt plötsligt bara handlar om 40 vittnen - trots att det tidigare var fler än så bara bland sjukhuspersonalen redan innan man adderar detektiver, livvakter och personal från två federala säkerhetstjänster.?

Vad hände?

Intressant är väl att du även verkar ha svängt ifråga om vad det var alla de där vittnena såg och sa?
Häromdagen skrev du att:

Men tittar vi tillbaks på dina tidigare uttalande så får man en annan historia;



Har de ändrat sin utsaga eller vad har hänt?
Till er andra.

Det här är en av signaturen "SnakePlissskens" favoritsysselsättningar. Att blanda ihop det som syftar till mer överblickande information med ungefärliga avrundningar/hyfsningar, med det som syftar till mer exakt sådan.

Zooma ut vs zooma in, beroende på var diskussion befinner sig. Att alltid "zooma in" skulle naturligtvis bli helt ohanterligt ganska omgående.

Jag kan till och med erkänna att jag nå'n gång har avrundat åt ett håll fördelaktigt för mitt argument, men det har i så fall berott på att jag vill provocera fram en mer detaljerad diskussion vilken jag vet fullt ut kommer att bevisa att jag har rätt i sak. I det här fallet att en förkrossande majoritet av alla de som på mycket nära håll observerade/hanterade JFKs huvudskador rapporterade ett stort gapande hål i JFKs höger bakhuvud.

Det är här alla vi som konsekvent har ett ÄRLIGT UPPSÅT skiljer oss från signaturen "SnakePlisssken" som ju drivs av något helt annat, oklart vad.

Ondska?


Det är därför som jag inte längre direkt debatterar med denne. Jag nöjer mig med istället att beta av signaturens direkta lögner och försök till vilseledning till förmån för de som läser i tråden.
__________________
Senast redigerad av onopono 2023-12-01 kl. 18:12.
Citera
2023-12-01, 18:09
  #9568
Medlem
SnakePlissskens avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Till er andra.

Det här är en av signaturen "SnakePlissskens" favoritsysselsättningar. Att blanda ihop det som syftar till mer överblickande information med ungefärliga avrundningar/hyfsningar, med det som syftar till mer exakt sådan.

Zooma ut vs zooma in, beroende på var diskussion befinner sig. Att alltid "zooma in" skulle naturligtvis bli helt ohanterligt ganska omgående.

Jag kan till och med erkänna att jag nå'n gång har avrundat åt ett håll fördelaktigt för mitt argument, men det har i så fall berott på att jag vill provocera fram en mer detaljerad diskussion vilken jag vet fullt ut kommer att bevisa att jag har rätt i sak. I det här fallet att en förkrossande majoritet av alla de som på mycket nära håll observerade/hanterade huvudskador rapporterade ett stort gapande hål i JFKs höger bakhuvud.

Tänka sig - du försöker bara ”provocera fram en detaljerad diskussion” - men du vill inte förklara detaljerna i dina påståenden? Jaja…
Så 50 blir 40, blir nåt annat de har sagt och vi ska bara köpa det? Javisst kan vi (eller åtminstone jag) göra det men då vill man ju ha en förklaring till varför du ändrat ståndpunkt och påståenden. Nu gav du det ett halvhjärtat försök här ovan med att säga att du inte längre räknade med agenterna vid bilen - men det går ju fortfarande inte ihop…

Citat:
Det är här alla vi som konsekvent har ett ÄRLIGT UPPSÅT skiljer oss från signaturen "SnakePlisssken" som ju drivs av något helt annat, oklart vad.

Ondska?


Det är därför som jag inte längre direkt debatterar med denne. Jag nöjer mig med istället att beta av signaturens direkta lögner och försök till vilseledning till förmån för de som läser i tråden.

Om du någonsin hittar en lögn bland mina inlägg är du mer än välkommen att påvisa den - jag kommer bli mäkta imponerad!

Tills dess är det bara att konstatera att du just ljög…
Citera
2023-12-01, 18:43
  #9569
Avstängd
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av SnakePlisssken
Tänka sig - du försöker bara ”provocera fram en detaljerad diskussion” - men du vill inte förklara detaljerna i dina påståenden? Jaja…
Så 50 blir 40, blir nåt annat de har sagt och vi ska bara köpa det? Javisst kan vi (eller åtminstone jag) göra det men då vill man ju ha en förklaring till varför du ändrat ståndpunkt och påståenden. Nu gav du det ett halvhjärtat försök här ovan med att säga att du inte längre räknade med agenterna vid bilen - men det går ju fortfarande inte ihop…



Om du någonsin hittar en lögn bland mina inlägg är du mer än välkommen att påvisa den - jag kommer bli mäkta imponerad!

Tills dess är det bara att konstatera att du just ljög…
Till er andra.

Det här har varit upp tidigare, men jag drar det igen för nytillkomna.


Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas:


1) KEMP CLARK, MD, Professor and Director of Neurological Surgery at Parkland:
"...in the occipital region of the skull … blood and brain were extruding... large wound in the right occipitoparietal region … considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue … Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound."

2) ROBERT McCLELLAND, MD:
” … the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted … you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blasted out...."

3) MARION THOMAS JENKINS, MD:
”… a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital) … herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound."


4) CHARLES JAMES CARRICO, MD:
" (the skull) wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing... attempts to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted..."

5) MALCOLM PERRY, MD:
"A large wound of the right posterior cranium... the parietal occipital head wound was largely avulsive and there was visible brain tissue in the macard and some cerebellum seen..."

6) RONALD COY JONES, senior General Surgery resident physician:
"...he had a large wound in the right posterior side of the head... some brain hanging out of this wound with multiple pieces of skull noted next with the brain and with a tremendous amount of clot and blood … what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull"

7) GENE AIKIN, MD, anesthesiologist:
"The back of the right occipitalparietal portion of his head was shattered with brain substance extruding."

8) PAUL PETERS, MD:
"...I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput...It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal area that there was a large defect."


9) CHARLES CRENSHAW, MD:
"I walked to the President's head to get a closer look. His entire right cerebral hemisphere appeared to be gone. It looked like a crater--an empty cavity. All I could see there was mangled, bloody tissue. From the damage I saw, there was no doubt in my mind that the bullet had entered his head through the front, and as it surgically passed through his cranium, the missile obliterated part of the temporal and all the parietal and occipital lobes before it lacerated the cerebellum."

10) CHARLES RUFUS BAXTER, MD:
"...the right temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table... the cerebellum was present...."

11) ROBERT GROSSMAN, MD, Instructor in Neurosurgery:
"He (Grossman) said that he saw two large holes in the head, as he told the (Boston) Globe, and he described a large hole squarely in the occiput, far too large for a bullet entry wound..."

12) RICHARD BROOKS DULANEY, MD:
”They lifted up the head and the whole back-side was gone."

13) ADOLPH GIESECKE, MD, assistant professor of anesthesiology:
"...from the vertex to the left ear, and from the brow line to the occiput on the left-hand side of the head the cranium was entirely missing."

14) FOUAD BASHOUR, MD, associate professor of medicine, cardiology:
Groden and Livingstone reported, "He was most insistent that the official picture was not representative of the wounds, and he continually laid his hand both on the back of Livingstone's head and his own to show where the large hole was. 'Why do they cover it up?' he repeated numerous times. 'This is not the way it was!' he kept repeating, shaking his head no."

15) KENNETH EVERETT SALYER, MD:
"...(JFK) had a wound of his right temporal region…”

16) PAT HUTTON, RN (sköterska):
"Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound in the back of his head, and was lying there unresponsive."

17) DORIS NELSON, RN:
Asked about the accuracy of the HSCA autopsy photographs she reacted: "No. It's not true. Because there was no hair back there. There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. Some of his head was blown away and his brains were fallen down on the stretcher."

18) SECRET SERVICE AGENT WILLIAM GREER:
"His head was all shot, this whole part was all a matter of blood like he had been hit." Specter, "Indicating the top and right rear side of the head?" Greer: "Yes, sir; it looked like that was all blown off."

19) SECRET SERVICE AGENT CLINT HILL:
"The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed... one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head."

20) NURSE DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON:
"...the back of his head...well, it was very bad--you know... The hole was basically almost the size of a saucer, and sort of from the occiput … Well, to me it was an exit hole."

21) WILLIAM MIDGETT, MD:
”… right parietal" and said it was behind the right ear.”

22) Don T. Curtis, D.D.S.:
”The drawing by Dr. Robert McClelland (stort gapande hål i höger baksida) is essentially my recollection of the wound suffered by John F. Kennedy.”

20 st av vittnena från Parkland talar alltså om ett stort gapande hål i högra baksidan av JFK's huvud. 1 vittne (nr 13) säger att skadan var på bakre vänstra sidan av huvudet, men att han bara hastigt tittade in i rummet, givet att han deltog i behandlingen av Connally. Samt 1 vittne (nr 15) att den var uppe på högra sidan av huvudet (temporal), men att han endast såg JFK som hastigast från vänster sida...


21 vittnen så här långt således...http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm


Nästa, vittnena från Bethesda.
__________________
Senast redigerad av onopono 2023-12-01 kl. 19:02.
Citera
2023-12-01, 18:56
  #9570
Medlem
SnakePlissskens avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Till er andra.

Det här har varit upp tidigare, men jag drar det igen för nytillkomna.


Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas:


1) KEMP CLARK, MD, Professor and Director of Neurological Surgery at Parkland:
"...in the occipital region of the skull … blood and brain were extruding... large wound in the right occipitoparietal region … considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue … Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound."

2) ROBERT McCLELLAND, MD:
” … the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted … you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blasted out...."

3) MARION THOMAS JENKINS, MD:
”… a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital) … herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound."


4) CHARLES JAMES CARRICO, MD:
" (the skull) wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing... attempts to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted..."

5) MALCOLM PERRY, MD:
"A large wound of the right posterior cranium... the parietal occipital head wound was largely avulsive and there was visible brain tissue in the macard and some cerebellum seen..."

6) RONALD COY JONES, senior General Surgery resident physician:
"...he had a large wound in the right posterior side of the head... some brain hanging out of this wound with multiple pieces of skull noted next with the brain and with a tremendous amount of clot and blood … what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull"

7) GENE AIKIN, MD, anesthesiologist:
"The back of the right occipitalparietal portion of his head was shattered with brain substance extruding."

8) PAUL PETERS, MD:
"...I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput...It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal area that there was a large defect."


9) CHARLES CRENSHAW, MD:
"I walked to the President's head to get a closer look. His entire right cerebral hemisphere appeared to be gone. It looked like a crater--an empty cavity. All I could see there was mangled, bloody tissue. From the damage I saw, there was no doubt in my mind that the bullet had entered his head through the front, and as it surgically passed through his cranium, the missile obliterated part of the temporal and all the parietal and occipital lobes before it lacerated the cerebellum."

10) CHARLES RUFUS BAXTER, MD:
"...the right temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table... the cerebellum was present...."

11) ROBERT GROSSMAN, MD, Instructor in Neurosurgery:
"He (Grossman) said that he saw two large holes in the head, as he told the (Boston) Globe, and he described a large hole squarely in the occiput, far too large for a bullet entry wound..."

12) RICHARD BROOKS DULANEY, MD:
”They lifted up the head and the whole back-side was gone."

13) ADOLPH GIESECKE, MD, assistant professor of anesthesiology:
"...from the vertex to the left ear, and from the brow line to the occiput on the left-hand side of the head the cranium was entirely missing."

14) FOUAD BASHOUR, MD, associate professor of medicine, cardiology:
Groden and Livingstone reported, "He was most insistent that the official picture was not representative of the wounds, and he continually laid his hand both on the back of Livingstone's head and his own to show where the large hole was. 'Why do they cover it up?' he repeated numerous times. 'This is not the way it was!' he kept repeating, shaking his head no."

15) KENNETH EVERETT SALYER, MD:
"...(JFK) had a wound of his right temporal region…”

16) PAT HUTTON, RN (sköterska):
"Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound in the back of his head, and was lying there unresponsive."

17) DORIS NELSON, RN:
Asked about the accuracy of the HSCA autopsy photographs she reacted: "No. It's not true. Because there was no hair back there. There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. Some of his head was blown away and his brains were fallen down on the stretcher."

18) SECRET SERVICE AGENT WILLIAM GREER:
"His head was all shot, this whole part was all a matter of blood like he had been hit." Specter, "Indicating the top and right rear side of the head?" Greer: "Yes, sir; it looked like that was all blown off."

19) SECRET SERVICE AGENT CLINT HILL:
"The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed... one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head."

20) NURSE DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON:
"...the back of his head...well, it was very bad--you know... The hole was basically almost the size of a saucer, and sort of from the occiput … Well, to me it was an exit hole."

21) WILLIAM MIDGETT, MD:
”… right parietal" and said it was behind the right ear.”

22) Don T. Curtis, D.D.S.:
”The drawing by Dr. Robert McClelland (stort gapande hål i höger baksida) is essentially my recollection of the wound suffered by John F. Kennedy.”

20 st av vittnena från Parkland talar alltså om ett stort gapande hål i högra baksidan av JFK's huvud. 1 vittne (nr 13) säger att skadan var på bakre vänstra sidan av huvudet, men att han bara hastigt tittade in i rummet, givet att han deltog i behandlingen av Connally. Samt 1 vittne (nr 15) att den var uppe på högra sidan av huvudet (temporal), men att han endast såg JFK som hastigast från vänster sida...


20 vittnen så här långt således...http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm


Nästa, vittnena från Bethesda.
Du får gärna låta bli att citera mig när du inte ens försöker svara på det jag bad om svar på. Du hävdar ju dessutom att du inte diskuterar med mig, så initiativet att citera mig och sen skriva väggar med irrelevant data som inte ens besvarar min fråga är fullständigt obegripligt.
Citera
2023-12-01, 19:06
  #9571
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Till er andra.

Det här har varit upp tidigare, men jag drar det igen för nytillkomna.


Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas:


1) KEMP CLARK, MD, Professor and Director of Neurological Surgery at Parkland:
"...in the occipital region of the skull … blood and brain were extruding... large wound in the right occipitoparietal region … considerable loss of scalp and bone tissue … Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound."

2) ROBERT McCLELLAND, MD:
” … the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted … you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blasted out...."

3) MARION THOMAS JENKINS, MD:
”… a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital) … herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound."


4) CHARLES JAMES CARRICO, MD:
" (the skull) wound had avulsed the calvarium and shredded brain tissue present with profuse oozing... attempts to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via packs instituted..."

5) MALCOLM PERRY, MD:
"A large wound of the right posterior cranium... the parietal occipital head wound was largely avulsive and there was visible brain tissue in the macard and some cerebellum seen..."

6) RONALD COY JONES, senior General Surgery resident physician:
"...he had a large wound in the right posterior side of the head... some brain hanging out of this wound with multiple pieces of skull noted next with the brain and with a tremendous amount of clot and blood … what appeared to be an exit wound in the posterior portion of the skull"

7) GENE AIKIN, MD, anesthesiologist:
"The back of the right occipitalparietal portion of his head was shattered with brain substance extruding."

8) PAUL PETERS, MD:
"...I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput...It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal area that there was a large defect."


9) CHARLES CRENSHAW, MD:
"I walked to the President's head to get a closer look. His entire right cerebral hemisphere appeared to be gone. It looked like a crater--an empty cavity. All I could see there was mangled, bloody tissue. From the damage I saw, there was no doubt in my mind that the bullet had entered his head through the front, and as it surgically passed through his cranium, the missile obliterated part of the temporal and all the parietal and occipital lobes before it lacerated the cerebellum."

10) CHARLES RUFUS BAXTER, MD:
"...the right temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table... the cerebellum was present...."

11) ROBERT GROSSMAN, MD, Instructor in Neurosurgery:
"He (Grossman) said that he saw two large holes in the head, as he told the (Boston) Globe, and he described a large hole squarely in the occiput, far too large for a bullet entry wound..."

12) RICHARD BROOKS DULANEY, MD:
”They lifted up the head and the whole back-side was gone."

13) ADOLPH GIESECKE, MD, assistant professor of anesthesiology:
"...from the vertex to the left ear, and from the brow line to the occiput on the left-hand side of the head the cranium was entirely missing."

14) FOUAD BASHOUR, MD, associate professor of medicine, cardiology:
Groden and Livingstone reported, "He was most insistent that the official picture was not representative of the wounds, and he continually laid his hand both on the back of Livingstone's head and his own to show where the large hole was. 'Why do they cover it up?' he repeated numerous times. 'This is not the way it was!' he kept repeating, shaking his head no."

15) KENNETH EVERETT SALYER, MD:
"...(JFK) had a wound of his right temporal region…”

16) PAT HUTTON, RN (sköterska):
"Mr. Kennedy was bleeding profusely from a wound in the back of his head, and was lying there unresponsive."

17) DORIS NELSON, RN:
Asked about the accuracy of the HSCA autopsy photographs she reacted: "No. It's not true. Because there was no hair back there. There wasn't even hair back there. It was blown away. Some of his head was blown away and his brains were fallen down on the stretcher."

18) SECRET SERVICE AGENT WILLIAM GREER:
"His head was all shot, this whole part was all a matter of blood like he had been hit." Specter, "Indicating the top and right rear side of the head?" Greer: "Yes, sir; it looked like that was all blown off."

19) SECRET SERVICE AGENT CLINT HILL:
"The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed... one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head."

20) NURSE DIANA HAMILTON BOWRON:
"...the back of his head...well, it was very bad--you know... The hole was basically almost the size of a saucer, and sort of from the occiput … Well, to me it was an exit hole."

21) WILLIAM MIDGETT, MD:
”… right parietal" and said it was behind the right ear.”

22) Don T. Curtis, D.D.S.:
”The drawing by Dr. Robert McClelland (stort gapande hål i höger baksida) is essentially my recollection of the wound suffered by John F. Kennedy.”

20 st av vittnena från Parkland talar alltså om ett stort gapande hål i högra baksidan av JFK's huvud. 1 vittne (nr 13) säger att skadan var på bakre vänstra sidan av huvudet, men att han bara hastigt tittade in i rummet, givet att han deltog i behandlingen av Connally. Samt 1 vittne (nr 15) att den var uppe på högra sidan av huvudet (temporal), men att han endast såg JFK som hastigast från vänster sida...


21 vittnen så här långt således...http://www.assassinationweb.com/ag6.htm


Nästa, vittnena från Bethesda.


Vi har en samling av 22 detaljerade vittnesmål från Parkland Hospital som alla samstämmigt beskriver John F. Kennedys skador på ett så precist och enhetligt sätt att det skulle göra vilken kriminaltekniker som helst grön av avund. Tjugo vittnen talar om ett stort gapande hål i högra baksidan av huvudet - vilken otrolig enhetlighet i observationerna! Sedan har vi det där ensamma vittnet som bara hastigt tittade in i rummet och på något sätt såg skadan på den helt motsatta sidan av huvudet. Och förstås, den där personen som såg JFK “som hastigast från vänster sida” och drog helt andra slutsatser. Det är ju nästan som att vi har en scen direkt ur en Agatha Christie-roman, där alla vittnen mystiskt nog har en annan version av händelsen. Fascinerande hur detaljerad och ändå förvirrande denna mosaik av vittnesmål är!
Citera
2023-12-01, 19:26
  #9572
Avstängd
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Nästa, vittnena från Bethesda.


Bethesda Naval Hospital, Maryland:


1) GODFREY McHUGH, President Kennedy's Air Force Aid:
"...he was in absolute perfect shape, except the back of the head, top back of the head, had an explosive bullet in it (sic) and was badly damaged... Ninety-nine percent the back, the top back of the head... that's the portion that had been badly damaged by the bullet."

2) JOHN STRINGER, the autopsy photographer:
"In the occipital part, in the back there, up above the neck."

3) SECRET SERVICE AGENT WILLIAM GREER (vad han såg på Bethesda):
"Upper right side, going toward the rear … The skull was completely--this part was completely gone."

4) SECRET SERVICE AGENT ROY KELLERMAN:
””He had a large wound this size." Specter: "Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches would that be approximately correct?" (sic) Kellerman: "Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head." Specter: "Indicating the rear portion of the head." Kellerman: "Yes." Specter: "More to the right side of the head." Kellerman: "Right.””

5) SECRET SERVICE AGENT CLINTON J. HILL (vad han såg på Bethesda):
"When I arrived the autopsy had been completed and...I observed another wound (in addition to the throat wound) on the right rear portion of the skull."

6) FBI AGENT FRANCIS X. O'NEILL:
O'Neill made a sketch witnessed and signed by D. A. Purdy and M. T. Flanagan that showed an "entry" at the low rear central portion of JFK's skull and an 'exit' on the right rear quadrant of the head no more anterior than the posterior portion of the ear.


7) FBI agent JAMES SIBERT:
"The head wound was in the upper back of the head.", and "...a large head wound in the upper back of the head with a section of the scull (sic) bone missing..."

8) MORTICIAN TOM ROBINSON:
"Directly behind the back of his head." Purdy: "Approximately between the ears or higher up?" Robinson, "No, I would say pretty much between them.” ”The big hole was only in the back (emphasis added). We filled the skull with plaster and put back the bones, but we did not have all of the bones and could not completely cover over the hole in the back. I do not remember any bone being missing on the top of the head."

9) ROBERT FREDERICK KARNEI, MD:
"Most of the bone that was missing was destroyed in the back of the head."

10) PAUL KELLY O'CONNOR, laboratory technologist:
"O'Connor was shown the autopsy photographs and he said, "No, that doesn't look like what I saw...A lot worse wound extended way back here, " and he demonstrated with his hand to the back of the head."

11) JAMES CURTIS JENKINS, laboratory technologist:
The HSCA's Jim Kelly and Andy Purdy reported that Jenkins "said he saw a head wound in the "...middle temporal region back to the occipital." He told author, David Lifton, "I would say that parietal and occipital section on the right side of the head--it was a large gaping area...It had just been crushed, and kind of blown apart, toward the rear."

12) EDWARD REED, X-ray technician:
JFK had been shot from the front because the skull wound was "more posterior than anterior"

13) JERROL CUSTER, X-ray technician:
"he exposed, and returned to the morgue, X- rays showing that the rear of the President's head was blown off."

14) JAN GAIL RUDNICKI, Dr. Boswell's lab assistant:
”… the back-right quadrant of the head was missing."

15) JAMES E. METZLER, hospital corpsman, third class:
Author David Lifton reported, "It was also his impression, from the way the wound was located toward the back of the head, that President Kennedy must have been shot in the head from the front."

16) DAVID P. OSBORNE, M., a military physician present at the autopsy:
"...a second (bullet) hit in the occipital region of the posterior skull which blew off the posterior top of his skull and impacted and disintegrated against the interior surface of the frontal bone just above the level of the eyes.”

17) JOHN EBERSOLE, MD, Assistant Chief of Radiology and head of the Radiology Division:
”… a very obvious horrible gaping wound to the back of the head.”


18) RICHARD A. LIPSEY, aide to General Wehle:
Lipsey completed an autopsy face sheet diagram that depicted an area of the right lateral skull missing, anterior and posterior to the ear, where he had written "same area blown away as wound".

19) PHILIP C. WEHLE, Commanding officer of the military District of Washington, D. C.:
He noted that the wound was in the back of the head so he would not see it because the President was lying face up; …

20) CAPTAIN JOHN STOVER, Commanding Officer of the National Naval Medical School:
"Stover observed...a wound on the top of the head..."

21) CHESTER H. BOYERS, chief Petty Officer:
"In regard to the wounds Boyers recalls an entrance wound in the rear of the head to the right of the external occipital protuberance which exited along the top, right side of the head towards the rear and just above the right eyebrow."

22) J. THORNTON BOSWELL, MD, Chief of Pathology of the Naval Hospital (en av de tre obducenterna):
"Dr. Boswell said the wound was fairly low in the back of the head and that the bone was completely gone above the entry wound. He said that during the autopsy, a piece of skull fragment was brought in which included a portion which corresponded to the missing half of the entry wound in the head."

23) JAMES J. HUMES, MD, JFK's chief autopsy pathologist (en av de tre obducenterna):
"There is a large irregular defect of the scalp and skull on the right involving chiefly the parietal bone but extending somewhat into the temporal and occipital regions. In this region there is an actual absence of scalp and bone producing a defect which measures approximately 13 cm in greatest diameter..."

24) PIERRE A. FINCK, MD, the forensics specialist called in to assist Humes and Boswell with JFK's autopsy (en av de tre obducenterna):
"Rep. Ford: 'There has been complete unanimity (with Humes and Boswell who had just testified) on what you saw, what you did, and what you have reported?'
Col. Finck: 'Yes.'"
Här är det 2 vittnen av 24 som möjligen kan bekräfta fotografiet av JFK's bakhuvud från obduktionen på Bethesda.

21 + 22 = 43 vittnen så här långt, således.

Till det ska lägges de tre forensiska patologerna från Dallas Methodist Hospital som undersökte det ca 5x7 cm stora benfragment som dagen efter mordet hittades av Harper i gräset söder om Elm Street, vilka konstaterade att det var dagsfärskt och bestod av "occipital bone" (längst ner i bakhuvudet), vilket därpå 'försvann' efter det att det lämnades över till FBI.

43 + 3 = 46.

Det finns även vittnen till mordet som stod nära inpå vilka mer eller mindre uttalat säger att de observerade ett gapande hål i bakhuvudet, alternativt hur substans lämnade huvudet bakåt = från skada i bakhuvudet.

46 + ca 5 = ca 50.


Det här har jag senare således räknat ner till ca 40 enligt följande.
- Både Hill och Greer finns listade både som Parklandvittnen och som Bethesda-vittnen = 2 vittnen går bort = 48 vittnen kvar.

- De ca 5 vittnesmålen från mordplatsen går bort, givet det större avståndet, samt de avsevärt sämre förutsättningarna i övrigt = ca 43 vittnen kvar.
Vilket jag har avrundat ner till ca 40 vittnen för att vara helt på den säkra sidan när frågan diskuteras mer summariskt.

Döm själva.
Citera
2023-12-01, 19:34
  #9573
Medlem
SnakePlissskens avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av onopono
Bethesda Naval Hospital, Maryland:


1) GODFREY McHUGH, President Kennedy's Air Force Aid:
"...he was in absolute perfect shape, except the back of the head, top back of the head, had an explosive bullet in it (sic) and was badly damaged... Ninety-nine percent the back, the top back of the head... that's the portion that had been badly damaged by the bullet."

2) JOHN STRINGER, the autopsy photographer:
"In the occipital part, in the back there, up above the neck."

3) SECRET SERVICE AGENT WILLIAM GREER (vad han såg på Bethesda):
"Upper right side, going toward the rear … The skull was completely--this part was completely gone."

4) SECRET SERVICE AGENT ROY KELLERMAN:
””He had a large wound this size." Specter: "Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches would that be approximately correct?" (sic) Kellerman: "Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head." Specter: "Indicating the rear portion of the head." Kellerman: "Yes." Specter: "More to the right side of the head." Kellerman: "Right.””

5) SECRET SERVICE AGENT CLINTON J. HILL (vad han såg på Bethesda):
"When I arrived the autopsy had been completed and...I observed another wound (in addition to the throat wound) on the right rear portion of the skull."

6) FBI AGENT FRANCIS X. O'NEILL:
O'Neill made a sketch witnessed and signed by D. A. Purdy and M. T. Flanagan that showed an "entry" at the low rear central portion of JFK's skull and an 'exit' on the right rear quadrant of the head no more anterior than the posterior portion of the ear.


7) FBI agent JAMES SIBERT:
"The head wound was in the upper back of the head.", and "...a large head wound in the upper back of the head with a section of the scull (sic) bone missing..."

8) MORTICIAN TOM ROBINSON:
"Directly behind the back of his head." Purdy: "Approximately between the ears or higher up?" Robinson, "No, I would say pretty much between them.” ”The big hole was only in the back (emphasis added). We filled the skull with plaster and put back the bones, but we did not have all of the bones and could not completely cover over the hole in the back. I do not remember any bone being missing on the top of the head."

9) ROBERT FREDERICK KARNEI, MD:
"Most of the bone that was missing was destroyed in the back of the head."

10) PAUL KELLY O'CONNOR, laboratory technologist:
"O'Connor was shown the autopsy photographs and he said, "No, that doesn't look like what I saw...A lot worse wound extended way back here, " and he demonstrated with his hand to the back of the head."

11) JAMES CURTIS JENKINS, laboratory technologist:
The HSCA's Jim Kelly and Andy Purdy reported that Jenkins "said he saw a head wound in the "...middle temporal region back to the occipital." He told author, David Lifton, "I would say that parietal and occipital section on the right side of the head--it was a large gaping area...It had just been crushed, and kind of blown apart, toward the rear."

12) EDWARD REED, X-ray technician:
JFK had been shot from the front because the skull wound was "more posterior than anterior"

13) JERROL CUSTER, X-ray technician:
"he exposed, and returned to the morgue, X- rays showing that the rear of the President's head was blown off."

14) JAN GAIL RUDNICKI, Dr. Boswell's lab assistant:
”… the back-right quadrant of the head was missing."

15) JAMES E. METZLER, hospital corpsman, third class:
Author David Lifton reported, "It was also his impression, from the way the wound was located toward the back of the head, that President Kennedy must have been shot in the head from the front."

16) DAVID P. OSBORNE, M., a military physician present at the autopsy:
"...a second (bullet) hit in the occipital region of the posterior skull which blew off the posterior top of his skull and impacted and disintegrated against the interior surface of the frontal bone just above the level of the eyes.”

17) JOHN EBERSOLE, MD, Assistant Chief of Radiology and head of the Radiology Division:
”… a very obvious horrible gaping wound to the back of the head.”


18) RICHARD A. LIPSEY, aide to General Wehle:
Lipsey completed an autopsy face sheet diagram that depicted an area of the right lateral skull missing, anterior and posterior to the ear, where he had written "same area blown away as wound".

19) PHILIP C. WEHLE, Commanding officer of the military District of Washington, D. C.:
He noted that the wound was in the back of the head so he would not see it because the President was lying face up; …

20) CAPTAIN JOHN STOVER, Commanding Officer of the National Naval Medical School:
"Stover observed...a wound on the top of the head..."

21) CHESTER H. BOYERS, chief Petty Officer:
"In regard to the wounds Boyers recalls an entrance wound in the rear of the head to the right of the external occipital protuberance which exited along the top, right side of the head towards the rear and just above the right eyebrow."

22) J. THORNTON BOSWELL, MD, Chief of Pathology of the Naval Hospital (en av de tre obducenterna):
"Dr. Boswell said the wound was fairly low in the back of the head and that the bone was completely gone above the entry wound. He said that during the autopsy, a piece of skull fragment was brought in which included a portion which corresponded to the missing half of the entry wound in the head."

23) JAMES J. HUMES, MD, JFK's chief autopsy pathologist (en av de tre obducenterna):
"There is a large irregular defect of the scalp and skull on the right involving chiefly the parietal bone but extending somewhat into the temporal and occipital regions. In this region there is an actual absence of scalp and bone producing a defect which measures approximately 13 cm in greatest diameter..."

24) PIERRE A. FINCK, MD, the forensics specialist called in to assist Humes and Boswell with JFK's autopsy (en av de tre obducenterna):
"Rep. Ford: 'There has been complete unanimity (with Humes and Boswell who had just testified) on what you saw, what you did, and what you have reported?'
Col. Finck: 'Yes.'"
Här är det 2 vittnen av 24 som möjligen kan bekräfta fotografiet av JFK's bakhuvud från obduktionen på Bethesda.

21 + 22 = 43 vittnen så här långt, således.

Till det ska lägges de tre forensiska patologerna från Dallas Methodist Hospital som undersökte det ca 5x7 cm stora benfragment som dagen efter mordet hittades av Harper i gräset söder om Elm Street, vilka konstaterade att det var dagsfärskt och bestod av "occipital bone" (längst ner i bakhuvudet), vilket därpå 'försvann' efter det att det lämnades över till FBI.

43 + 3 = 46.

Det finns även vittnen till mordet som stod nära inpå vilka mer eller mindre uttalat säger att de observerade ett gapande hål i bakhuvudet, alternativt hur substans lämnade huvudet bakåt = från skada i bakhuvudet.

46 + ca 5 = ca 50.


Det här har jag senare således räknat ner till ca 40 enligt följande.
- Både Hill och Greer finns listade både som Parklandvittnen och som Bethesda-vittnen = 2 vittnen går bort = 48 vittnen kvar.

- De ca 5 vittnesmålen från mordplatsen går bort, givet det större avståndet, samt de avsevärt sämre förutsättningarna i övrigt = ca 43 vittnen kvar.
Vilket jag har avrundat ner till ca 40 vittnen för att vara helt på den säkra sidan när frågan diskuteras mer summariskt.

Döm själva.

Jättebra, men dels är ju inte det där alls bara sjukhuspersonal så antalen stämmer fortfarande inte ens nästan med dina tidigare påståenden, och än viktigare - hur vet vi att dessa vittnen haft möjlighet att ”på nära håll” (enligt din senaste definition alltså 0-2 meter) undersöka JFK’s huvud? Samt hur vet vi att de hade kunskap (expertis enligt dig) att bedöma vad de iakttog?
Citera
2023-12-01, 19:36
  #9574
Medlem
kato85s avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av withnonam3
9/11 tråden om du ska svara
Ja det gör han.
Jag tänker inte gå in i det där dårhuset.
Citera
2023-12-01, 20:45
  #9575
Medlem
withnonam3s avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av kato85
Ja det gör han.
Jag tänker inte gå in i det där dårhuset.

Nej det gör han väl inte om han påpekar fusk som vem som helst kan se....
Citera
2023-12-01, 21:14
  #9576
Medlem
kato85s avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av withnonam3
Nej det gör han väl inte om han påpekar fusk som vem som helst kan se....
Påpekar är rätta ordet.
Citera

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