En debatt mellan en revisionist och en förintelsetroende

Weber kritiserar under debatten en vittnesutsaga från en kvinna som påstår sig ha varit med om en gasning i Auschwitz. Det faller inom trådens ämne att diskutera om Webers kritik är berättigad och således även att analysera just det vittnesmålet. Det är däremot inte tillåtet att dra in en massa andra vittnesmål i diskussionen.

Eyewitness 'testimony' of an Auschwitz gas chamber survivor
> Raymond Phillips, ed.
> Trial of Josef Kramer and Forty-Four Others (The Belsen Trial)
> London: William Hodge, 1949
>
> (18) Deposition of Regina Bialek (Pole, aged 28)
> 3. On 25th December 1943, I was sick with typhus and was picked out at a
> selection made by doctors Mengele and Tauber along with about 350 other
> women. I was made to undress and taken by lorry to a gas chamber. There
> were
> seven gas chambers at Auschwitz. This particular one was underground and
> the
> lorry was able to run down the slope and straight into the chamber.
>
> Here we were tipped unceremoniously on the floor. The room was about 12
> yards square and small lights on the wall dimly illuminated it. When the
> room was full a hissing sound was heard coming from the centre point on
> the
> floor and gas came into the room.
>
> After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to bite
> their
> hands and foam at the mouth, and blood issued from their ears, eyes and
> mouth, and their faces went blue.
>
> I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the
> throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele
> and I was led from the chamber. I attribute my escape to the fact that the
> daughter of a friend of mine who was an Aryan and a doctor at Auschwitz
> had
> seen me being transported to the chamber and had told her mother, who
> immediately appealed to Dr. Mengele.
>
> Apparently he realized that as a political prisoner I was of more value
> alive than dead, and I was released.
>
> 4. I think that the time to kill a person in this particular gas chamber
> would be from 15 to 20 minutes.
>
> 5. I was told that the staffs of the prisoners who worked in the gas
> chamber
> and crematorium next door changed every three months, the old staff being
> taken to a villa in the camp to do some repair work. Here they were locked
> in the rooms and gas bombs thrown through the window.
>
> I estimate that in December, 1943, about 7,000 people disappeared from
> Auschwitz by way of the gas chamber and crematorium.
>
http://www.slashlegal.com/showthread.php?t=163242

As a fairly typical example of "eyewitness" gas chamber evidence, Weber quoted from the sworn statement of Regina Bialek, a former Auschwitz prisoner who supposedly survived a "gassing." (See her statement on page 32). Calling this first-person account "absurd" and "ludicrous," Weber pointed out that her description of a "gassing" is one that no serious historian today would credit.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n1p22_Weber.html

There were two counts listed in the charge sheet: Count One for crimes committed at Bergen-Belsen and Count Two for crimes committed while the guards were previously working at Auschwitz Birkenau. Commandant Kramer, who was the commandant at Birkenau, the Auschwitz II camp, prior to being transferred to Bergen-Belsen, was charged with both counts, as were 11 others who had worked under him at Birkenau. Out of the 12 defendants who were charged under Count Two, there was only one defendant, Stanislawa Staroska, who was not also charged with Count One, which was crimes committed at Bergen-Belsen. He was found guilty of Count Two and sentenced to 10 years in prison.
[…]
Both Kramer and Dr. Klein were convicted on Courts One and Two. Both were sentenced to death by hanging. They were both hanged at Hamelin Prison on December 13, 1945.
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Bergen...nBelsen09.html

> After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to bite
> their
> hands and foam at the mouth, and blood issued from their ears, eyes and
> mouth, and their faces went blue.
>
> I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the
> throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele
> and I was led from the chamber. I attribute my escape to the fact that the
> daughter of a friend of mine who was an Aryan and a doctor at Auschwitz
> had
> seen me being transported to the chamber and had told her mother, who
> immediately appealed to Dr. Mengele.
>
> Apparently he realized that as a political prisoner I was of more value
> alive than dead, and I was released.

Out of the 12 defendants who were charged under Count Two, there was only one defendant, Stanislawa Staroska, who was not also charged with Count One, which was crimes committed at Bergen-Belsen. He was found guilty of Count Two and sentenced to 10 years in prison.

Weber kritiserar under debatten en vittnesutsaga från en kvinna som påstår sig ha varit med om en gasning i Auschwitz. Det faller inom trådens ämne att diskutera om Webers kritik är berättigad och således även att analysera just det vittnesmålet. Det är däremot inte tillåtet att dra in en massa andra vittnesmål i diskussionen.

I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele
> and I was led from the chamber.

Du ljuger när du skriver:


Är vi överens om det nu så att vi kan lämna detta skitsnackande från din sida och gå vidare?

/VV

> After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to bite
> their
> hands and foam at the mouth, and blood issued from their ears, eyes and
> mouth, and their faces went blue.
>
> I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the
> throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele
> and I was led from the chamber.

Kan Erleb och Groffe ställa sig utanför en byggnad (tex ett garage) med vidöppna dörrar och ropa in genom dörrarna.
Om ingen därinne hör vad ni ropar, utan att vara döva, så har ni ett case.
Eller så får ni finna er vara manipulativa och falska.
Ja, eller korkade naturligtvis.
https://www.flashback.org/showpost....9&postcount=17

Nyckelordet är "informationsproblemet", för viss kunskap kan du bara erhålla genom att vara på en viss plats där du gör rätt saker tillsammans med rätt personer. Och det är väldigt svårt att överföra den kunskapen till t.ex. skriftliga order utan att väsentliga delar går förlorade.

MVH
/Herr Lindholm
https://www.flashback.org/showpost....63&postcount=1

Apparently he realized that as a political prisoner I was of more value
> alive than dead, and I was released.

Jag tor ingenting, men konstaterar att han inte alls behöver vara inne i gaskammaren.

Han kan ha stått ha på behörigt avstånd med en megafon?

Suttit i vakten och ropat ut det genom högtalaranläggningen?

eller hur?