2005-05-23, 13:54
  #1141
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Ezzelino
Jean-Claude Pressac är den ende som gjort det utvärderingsförsökte från en (åtminstone provisoriskt) utrotningstroende ståndpunkt...och hans slutsatser är inget de gaskammartroende på detta forum vågar befatta sig med,

Här finns hela boken online för den som vill ta del av den, och då direkt, inte
stollefiltrerad.

http://holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/
Citera
2005-05-23, 14:03
  #1142
Medlem
Ezzelinos avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av quark
Som vanligt förvrider revisionisterna fakta. Nu hänvisar de till gamle utrikesminister Hans-Dietrich Genscher.

Revisionisternas källa finns här: Brevet har alltså skrivits och skrivits under av handläggaren, någon Dr. Scheel. (Vad Inigo Speer med saken har att göra är oklart.)

Brevet säger ingenting om Genschers uppfattningar i frågan om exakt vilka krematoria hade gaskammare och vilka inte. Scheel har antagligen påverkats av brevet som "Stuparek" skrev, men det brevet publicerar revisionisterna förstås inte.

Jag förstår att det känns lite kallsvettigt för dig att frågan om den skamlösa fejkgaskammaren miljoner turister lurats med och fortsätter bedras med tas upp, och att det tills 1990, och ett politiskt beslut, var förbjudet att ifrågasätta fyramiljonerslögnen om Auschwitz (de borttappade 2,5 miljonerna är något som Auschwitztemplets förljugna prästerskap helst inte velat höra talas om, och Pipers "förklaring" (eller som du skulle uttrycka det, "förklarning") vore ju ren buskis om inte den Nürnbergstadfästa sovjetpropagandalögnen om de fyra miljonerna vore så grov och motbjudande...

"Bundesminister Genscher hat mich gebeten" - handläggaren skriver på uppdrag av Genscher. Men vad det gamla kräket Genscher tycker och tror är förstås föga intressant (om han nu är vid liv?). Intressantare är Olga Wormser-Migots sakliga konstaterande - och att du inte kommenterar det.
Citera
2005-05-23, 14:13
  #1143
Medlem
Ezzelinos avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av bolt
Här finns hela boken online för den som vill ta del av den, och då direkt, inte
stollefiltrerad.

http://holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/

Jag har otaliga gånger länkat till Pressacs verk och dryftat Pressacs forskning, din stolle, i förhoppning om en seriös diskussion. Men du verkar oförmögen att yttra en sammanhängande mening om Pressacs slutsatser, exempelvis hans åsikt att motsättningen exterminationister/revisionister upphävs när en viss kunskapsnivå om sakfrågorna nåtts.

Eller följande kommentar, som borde få det att isas utefter din ryggrad av rädsla för den nakna sanningen om du verkligen skulle fatta vad det är han säger:

Citat:
"Of his book and its relation to the "orthodox" extermination story, Pressac writes:

This study already demonstrates the complete bankruptcy of the traditional ["Holocaust"] history ... a history based for the most part on testimonies, assembled according to the need of the moment, truncated to fit an arbitrary truth and sprinkled with a few German documents of uneven value and without any connection with one another. (p. 264)"

Du tycker kanske det är synd att Sovjetimperiet föll? Hade det inte varit så mycket enklare för en slö gammal bolt att med allvarsskrynklat förebrående anlete bara få hänvisa till "4 miljoner dödade i Auschwitz" inskrivet på ett tjog minnesplattor i lägret?

Minnen av Pressac, denne Hitlerfascinerade apotekare och sanningssökande orosande som älskade tysk marschmusik och på ett underbart sinnrikt sätt, medvetet eller omedvetet, bidrog till att underminera gasningsmytologin:

http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/4/Graf426-432.html

http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/4/Mattogno432-435.html
Citera
2005-05-23, 14:38
  #1144
Medlem
quarks avatar
Faurisson skrev:
Citat:
One must wait until page 541 of the thesis by Olga Wormser-Migot on the system of Nazi concentration camps, before one finds a passage about the "gas chambers." However, for the reader there are still three other surprises:
  1. The passage in question covers only three pages.
  2. It carries the title: "The Problem of the Gas Chambers."
  3. The "problem" consists of trying to determine whether the "gas chambers" at Ravensbrück (Germany) and Mauthausen (Austria) really existed; the author comes to the conclusion that they did not exist; however she does not examine here the "problem" of the "gas chambers" of Auschwitz or any of the other camps, probably because in her mind they do not present a "problem." [on page 157 of her book she says that Auschwitz I had no gas chamber.]
I alla fall enligt http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/gaschambers.shtml

Men enligt en annan version av Faurisson på http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/FaurisArch/RF8007xx.html finns den sista meningen i fyrkanta klamrar inte med. Den står ju också lite i motsats till vad Faurisson skrev i citatets första mening.

Jag antar att meningen är tagen ur sitt sammanhang, tills revisionisterna lägger ut hela hennes avhandling på nätet. Hon kanske skrev att vid en viss tidpunkt hade Auschwitz I ingen fungerade gaskammar, eller något sådant. Hur som helst, revisionisterna skiter väl i vad en gammal judisk kärring tycker.
Citera
2005-05-23, 14:53
  #1145
Medlem
Ezzelinos avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av quark
Hur som helst, revisionisterna skiter väl i vad en gammal judisk kärring tycker.

Jag känner till flera kloka gamla judekäringar, kvackare, men de flesta av dem hör väl kulturhistorien till. Och Lilly och Nenne ingår inte i den skaran, hur vördnadsfullt (och sanningsförnekande) du än må behandla deras skitprat om mirakelräddningar från "gaskammare".
Citera
2005-05-23, 20:31
  #1146
Medlem
Ezzelinos avatar
Aj-aj-aj, vad ska vi tro om detta? Vem litar på herr Burdenko efter den fräcka och skamlösa Katynsvindeln?

http://revforum.yourforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=2161

Citat:
"---There are detailed "eyewitness" accounts of German guilt although it's now clear that the Soviets murdered the thousands of Polish officers at Katyn.

At Katyn there are statements by 'eyewitnesses' Aleksejawa, Michailowa, and Konachowskaja; detailed descriptions of mass murder falsely attributed to the Germans, corroborated by dozens of other indirect eyewitnesses, by forensic investigators, by a government's commission of inquiry, and war crimes prosecutors... all liars. I refer to Nuremberg Document 054 USSR. See:
http://katyn.codis.ru/cccp054.htm

This is very significant because the President of the Soviet Special State Commission, N.N. Burdenko, who compiled the massively fraudulent Katyn document, also compiled the report of the Soviet State Commission on Auschwitz, Document 008 USSR.
IOW:
N. N. Burdenko, and another key member of that commission, Nikolai, were the same authors of both reports. Therefore Auschwitz 'eyewitnesses' from 008 USSR, Tauber and Dragon, should be read no differently than Katyn 'eyewitnesses' Aleksejawa or Michailowa from 054 USSR.

And, as it is known that the crematoria of Auschwitz/Birkenau could not have gassed and cremated 2,000,000*, the very foundation of these detailed gassing claims is shattered. It is obvious that the detailed Auschwitz statements attributed to Tauber and Dragon are, like those from the Katyn 'investigation', completely false.---"
Citera
2005-05-23, 22:55
  #1147
Medlem
Ezzelinos avatar
För oss som aldrig besökt Auschwitz-Birkenau, men säkert även för rutinerade pilgrimer till vad som kallats Anus Mundi, är detta en rätt cool sajt, alltså den virtuella guidningen med "möjlighet att titta sig omkring åt alla håll", 360-graderssnurrande simulation. Ger lite närvarokänsla, detta grovt propagandaljugande bildspel:

http://www.remember.org/auschwitz/

Skulle vilja ha något liknande från Kolyma, detta långt dödligare läger, GULAG:s praktpjäs...
Citera
2005-05-24, 16:38
  #1148
Medlem
Ezzelinos avatar
Jag måste få erinra om Samuel Crowells förtjänstfullt dokumenterande och analyserande långa essä "The Gas Chamber of Sherlock Holmes", och specifikt om denna underbart tokiga första trevande Sovjetpropaganda i Pravda av en viss Boris Polevoi som var med vid intagandet av lägret:

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/SC/sh5.html

Citat:
"---Photographs of the liberated inmates, that included several hundred children, indicate old age, even infirmity, but neither starvation nor epidemics.185 Obviously the fact that such inmates were alive tended to contradict the already reigning conception; later, an SS man would confess that Himmler had ordered all exterminations to cease the previous November, in fact, precisely on November 26, 1944, the day the WRB report was issued.186 Needless to say no documentary evidence in support of this confession has ever surfaced.187

At the same time, the Soviets made reference ot the liberated Auschwitz camp in their national propaganda organ, Pravda. After a brief reference on February 1, a full report, by correspondent Boris Polevoi, was published on Friday, February 2, 1945, less than a week after the camp had been liberated, and a full three months before the official Soviet report on Auschwitz.

Polevoi's indebtedness to the Majdanek reportage is explicit, but at the same time there are some differences:

Last year, when the Red Army revealed to the world the terrible and abominable secrets of Majdanek, the Germans in Auschwitz began to wipe out the traces of their crimes. They leveled the mounds of the so-called "old" graves in the Eastern part of the camp, tore up and destroyed the traces of the electric conveyor belt , on which hundreds of people were simultaneously electrocuted, their bodies falling onto the slow moving conveyor belt which carried them to the top of the blast furnace where they fell in, were completely burned, their bones converted to meal in the rolling mills , and then sent to the surrounding fields.

In retreat were taken the special transportable apparatuses for killing children. The stationary gas chambers in the eastern part of the camp were restructured, even little turrets and other architectural embellishments were added so that they would look like innocent garages.


There is one major surprise to this narrative: first, it is completely different from the report of the Soviet Special Commission on Auschwitz. That report, in turn, would show the influence of the War Refugee Board (WRB) Report of November 26, 1945. An obvious inference is that the Soviet Auschwitz narrative was revised subsequent to this report to make it harmonize with the various anonymous messages which comprised the WRB report. Nevertheless, Polevoi's report shows other influences and connections.

For example, the concept of the "factory of death" is today well-known in the Holocaust literature, but appears to have its beginnings here. That concept in turn seems clearly linked to Russian, Soviet, and Western symbolism rejecting the industrial factory system, compare the short stories of Anton Chekhov or various writings of Maxim Gorky, or further the angst of German Expressionism. Meanwhile, the concept of the Germans "wiping out the traces of their crimes" goes back, as we have seen, to the Katyn Forest revelations of 1943.

It hardly needs to be pointed out that the "electric conveyor belt" has no place in any subsequent Auschwitz narratives, this story element is probably linked to the reports concerning the large electric chambers at Belzec and elsewhere. The "special transportable apparatuses for killing children" are probably references to gas vans, their special utilization for that purpose first attested at the Krasnodar-Kharkov trials. The description of "stationary gas chambers" is apparently a reference to either the delousing stations BW 5/A and 5/B at Birkenau, or else Crematoria IV and V. The reference to the "gas chambers" as "garages" ("garazhi") was a characterization first made of the "gas chambers" at Majdanek.

What is most striking about this press report is not its derivative nature or that it is totally at variance with the version of Auschwitz that we have come to know, substituting the traditional atrocity record with another, completely imaginary one. Rather, that the first non-anonymous observer at the Auschwitz camp could be so far from the current narrative speaks not only to the inaccuracy of this initial report, but also to the artifice of subsequent ones.---"
Citera
2005-05-26, 17:53
  #1149
Medlem
Ezzelinos avatar
En diskussionstråd om en fånge i Auschwitz-Birkenau under vad som påstås vara en "gasningsfrekvent" tidsperiod. Han hade dock inte ens hört rykten om något sådant, trots att han tillhörde "motståndsrörelsen":

http://p093.ezboard.com/frodohforumfrm10.showMessage?topicID=754.topic

Citat:
Title: Missing the Holocaust: My Father's Account of Auschwitz from August 1943 to June 1944.
Authors: Bourgois, Philippe1
Source: Anthropological Quarterly; Winter2005, Vol. 78 Issue 1, p89, 35p, 2bw

Very quickly we understood the harshness of the concentration camp but I never knew about the gas chambers or the selections. [Pausing, then speaking slowly.] I did not consciously reject anyone telling me that the Jews were being killed in the gas chambers and then burned. There were not even any rumors about it. What we did know was that the Germans were starving the Jewish workers to death, and what we saw was terrible.

What is most significant about my father not knowing about the selections and the gas chambers, despite working downwind from the death camp, is that one of his jobs as a member of the Engineer's sabotage group was to spread Allied war news. Since he listened secretly at night with the Engineer to the radio, he had access to anti-Nazi propaganda being broadcast by the Allies.---"
Citera
2005-05-27, 02:29
  #1150
Medlem
BlizzardKings avatar
Var det Hilberg som påstod att över 4000 per dygn kunde kremeras i Auschwitz? Ivan Lagacé är i vilket fall av en helt annan uppfattning:

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/ezchron/EZ_chron12.html
Citat:
7. HOLOCAUST CLAIM - MILLIONS WERE CREMATED AT AUSCHWITZ

Olga Lengyel, another important witness for the Holocaust Lobby, claimed
that 1,314,000 Jews were gassed and cremated at Auschwitz in only three months (May, June and July of 1944) and that these statistics were provided to her by a doctor who had worked in the crematory. She claimed that 3 bodies could be burned in a crematory retort in half an hour and that 17,280 people were gassed and burned every 24 hours. (Five Chimneys: The Story of Auschwitz.)

Raul Hilberg claimed that the Birkenau crematories could cremate 4,400 corpses daily under optimum conditions. (The Destruction of the European Jews).

THESE CLAIMS ARE PREPOSTEROUS AND WERE DEMOLISHED BY THE EXPERT TESTIMONY OF CANADIAN CREMATORY MANAGER IVAN LAGACE AT THE TRIAL OF ERNST ZÜNDEL IN 1988.

Lagacé examined the building plans of the crematories at Birkenau and testified that the maximum number of bodies that could have been cremated daily at Birkenau was 184. Lagacé termed Hilberg's figure "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality." It takes 2 hours for a modern crematory to cremate one body. This time could not have been exceeded by the Birkenau crematories. The Holocaust Lobby has never produced one cremation expert to substantiate their claims.

Crematories were built at Auschwitz in 1942 to help stop the typhus epidemic then raging through the camp. Typhus was incurable and highly contagious. Victims of the disease (including Nazi personnel) could not be buried due to the extremely high water table at Auschwitz. Even today in Canada, strict procedures are in force to deal with corpses infected with typhus. Protective clothing must be worn, and the clothing and container in which the corpse was put must be destroyed. In the case of typhus, Lagacé testified that the medical officer would likely order a direct cremation as this was the most effective way of dealing with something that volatile.

THE CREMATORIES AT AUSCHWITZ WERE BUILT TO SAVE LIVES BY DISPOSING OF THE BODIES IN A MANNER BEST SUITED TO CONTAINING THE TYPHUS EPIDEMIC. FOR THIS, GERMANS WERE HANGED.
Citera
2005-05-27, 06:26
  #1151
Medlem
Ezzelinos avatar
Koksförbrukningen i krematorierna finns ju registrerad, och vederlägger även den de förnuftsförolämpande fantasierna om "industriella massgasningar" i Birkenaus bårhuslokaler:

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html

Citat:
"---As quoted before, civil engineer Jährling calculated the coke requirements of the four crematoria of Birkenau in a memo of March 17, 1943, "on the basis of data from the firm Topf & Söhne (builder of the ovens) of March 11, 1943",[128] based on a daily operation time of 12 hours. The Topf letter mentioned by Jährling has not been located. It might have referred to the combustion capacity of the fireplace only, but we are looking for the coke consumption as a function of the number of cremations. Since the coke consumption is also a function of the type of corpse cremated (for emaciated bodies, the quantity of coke estimated by Jährling would have sufficed for 370 bodies),[189] it is preferable to consider the duration of the cremation process, which was in average an hour, plus an additional hour for heating the oven. This means that 506 bodies could have been cremated within 12 hours. From January 1 to March 10, 1943, ca. 14,800 inmates died in Auschwitz, in average 207 per day. In February 1943, the mortality was ca. 7,400 inmates, in average 264 per day.[163] In the same period, according to the Kalendarium of Danuta Czech, the number of the alleged gassing victims was ca. 72,700, in average 1,054 per day. Therefore, if there had been any homicidal gassings, calculations for coke consumption and hours of operation would have been based upon 1,250 corpses per day. This figure corresponds to of 17,875 kg of coke[190] compared to the actual estimate of 7,840 kg, and would have required a daily operation of (1,250÷46 =) 27 hours! This shows that Jährling's calculations referred exclusively to corpses of registered inmates who died a 'natural' death. But even this calculation was enormously exaggerated, because between March 15 and October 25, 1943 (224 days), only 628.5 tons of coke were supplied to the crematoria of Auschwitz-Birkenau, in average 2.8 tons per day, which is only slightly more than a third of Jährling's estimate. This will be the topic of the next chapter.---"
Citera
2005-05-27, 12:00
  #1152
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av BlizzardKing
(Hänvisning till Zundels hemsida)

Blizzo, du var ju ingen nazist sa du ju! Varför har du då stollen Zundel som förebild? Förstår du inte att han som nazist har all anledning att tvätta nazisternas brott?
Du bör nog inte använda revisionismens grövsta uttryck, om vi inte skall bli misstänksamma över motivationer. Det blir ju "talande", minst sagt, när sådana här saker sker.
Citera

Skapa ett konto eller logga in för att kommentera

Du måste vara medlem för att kunna kommentera

Skapa ett konto

Det är enkelt att registrera ett nytt konto

Bli medlem

Logga in

Har du redan ett konto? Logga in här

Logga in