EMU går i graven.

SPIEGEL: You mean that aid for the indebted states also benefits Germany?

Monti: Much of what Germany and France have done in the rescue of Greece has also helped German and French banks, who for a long time were major creditors for Greece and Greek banks. That practically doesn't apply to Italy at all, though. Seen in this way, Italy has not only not been the recipient of any aid, but we have actually given more than France or Germany if you consider the net return. This year our national debt will amount to 123.4 percent of our gross domestic product. Without the aid payments, it would be 120.3. I would explain that to a German businessman.

SPIEGEL: And you believe the German businessman would buy that?

Monti: I would also explain to him that Germany also profits from the fact that sovereign bonds in the Federal Republic of Germany are so cheap and that they can at times even be issued with negative interest rates. It is because of the risk of a euro collapse that the difference between Italy's interest rates and those of Germany is so great. In this way, the high interest rates that Italy is now having to pay are subsidizing the low ones that Germany pays. Without this risk, Germany would pay somewhat higher rates. In addition, no one can deny that Germany, simply because it is big, so productive and so efficient, is the greatest beneficiary of the common market.