2013-01-26, 08:51
#1802
Jag hittade ett intressant diskussionstråd: Avrätta, svälta eller gasa judar. Vad ska man använda sig av? https://www.flashback.org/p41688212#p41688212
Där diskussionen går ut på, hur man ska "förinta" judarna på det bästa sättet.
Om man i dagens samhälle tänker så, vad är det som säger, att inte tyskarna tänkte likadant?
För det finns hur mycket material som helst, om att tyskarna blide hjärntvättade med att hata "parasiterna"(judarna).
I tråden finns inga någon förmildrande omständigheter, om att förflytta judarna till öst.
För där kan de ju fortsätta terrar västvärlden, eller hur?
Så det stämmer nog, att befolkningen hatade så mycket judarna, att de accepterade att de försvann från jordens mark. De var ju ohyra, samma som de säger i tråden. Och ohyra det bruka man utrota.
Där diskussionen går ut på, hur man ska "förinta" judarna på det bästa sättet.
Om man i dagens samhälle tänker så, vad är det som säger, att inte tyskarna tänkte likadant?
För det finns hur mycket material som helst, om att tyskarna blide hjärntvättade med att hata "parasiterna"(judarna).
I tråden finns inga någon förmildrande omständigheter, om att förflytta judarna till öst.
För där kan de ju fortsätta terrar västvärlden, eller hur?
Så det stämmer nog, att befolkningen hatade så mycket judarna, att de accepterade att de försvann från jordens mark. De var ju ohyra, samma som de säger i tråden. Och ohyra det bruka man utrota.
2013-01-26, 10:57
#1804
__________________
Senast redigerad av Babord 2013-01-26 kl. 11:56.
Senast redigerad av Babord 2013-01-26 kl. 11:56.
2013-01-27, 15:53
#1805
2013-01-27, 16:17
#1806
2013-01-27, 16:51
#1807
Citat:
Så när ni troende saknar bevisning för att judar mördats i de östliga lägren ska vi tvivlare bevisa något som INTE hände?
Ursprungligen postat av FritzDaCat
Jo, eftersom du driver en tes (om transit) så ligger det naturligtvis på dig att lägga fram belägg för den.
Om majoriteten fakta talar för massmord och inte transit, så behöver naturligtvis de som stöder minoritetsuppfattningen lägga fram ordentligt med belägg för kunna att övertyga övriga. Innan dess är det kört, hur många av beläggen för den vedertagna historieskrivningen du än säger dig rata. Den andra sidan har ju åtminstone belägg för sin version, till skillnad från din.
Inga vittnen till den påstådda transiten till Sovjet har ännu synts till.
Inte en kotte tycks ha överlevt denna transit, medan andra t.o.m lyckades överleva Auschwitz.
SS-männen Stangl, Frenzel och Suchomel redogjorde så sent som på 70- och 80-talen för vad som drabbade drygt 1.5 miljoner judar i Reinhard-lägren, dvs massmord genom gasningar.
Om majoriteten fakta talar för massmord och inte transit, så behöver naturligtvis de som stöder minoritetsuppfattningen lägga fram ordentligt med belägg för kunna att övertyga övriga. Innan dess är det kört, hur många av beläggen för den vedertagna historieskrivningen du än säger dig rata. Den andra sidan har ju åtminstone belägg för sin version, till skillnad från din.
Inga vittnen till den påstådda transiten till Sovjet har ännu synts till.
Inte en kotte tycks ha överlevt denna transit, medan andra t.o.m lyckades överleva Auschwitz.
SS-männen Stangl, Frenzel och Suchomel redogjorde så sent som på 70- och 80-talen för vad som drabbade drygt 1.5 miljoner judar i Reinhard-lägren, dvs massmord genom gasningar.
Det är kört för er som tror på judarnas amsagor om Reinhardlägren. Så länge ni inte kan framlägga ett enda hållbart bevis så bör ni nog hålla tand för tunga och lugna ner er ett stycke. Det finns i princip inga fakta alls som talar för en fysisk förintelse av Europas judar, bara svammel från överlevare.
I tråden Dokumentära bevis för evakuering/transit vidare österut finns ett flertal poster som på ett ypperligt sätt demonstrerar den tyska deportationspolitiken, som ju faktiskt är väl dokumenterad. Här ett axplock:
https://www.flashback.org/sp20584955
https://www.flashback.org/sp20555786
https://www.flashback.org/sp20549237
https://www.flashback.org/sp20547884
https://www.flashback.org/sp20528569
Citat:
https://www.flashback.org/sp28731423
Det är precis som Klompe skriver:
”---Signaturen Groffe har i tråden redan presenterat en mängd dokument som alla talar för att judar har deporterats österut, att man inte alls beslutade om judeutrotning vid Wannseekonferensen och att Belzec och Treblinka var transitläger. Du och andra förintelsetroende debattörer har gång på gång uppmanats att förklara hur dessa dokument kan förenas med en förintelsetroende hisoriesyn. Ni har dock ständigt undvikit de frågeställningarna och istället bara låtsats som om de dokument som citerats inte existerar. Om det är någon som förtjänar beteckningen historieförnekare är det pajasar som du och Dr Tinnitus.---”
”---Signaturen Groffe har i tråden redan presenterat en mängd dokument som alla talar för att judar har deporterats österut, att man inte alls beslutade om judeutrotning vid Wannseekonferensen och att Belzec och Treblinka var transitläger. Du och andra förintelsetroende debattörer har gång på gång uppmanats att förklara hur dessa dokument kan förenas med en förintelsetroende hisoriesyn. Ni har dock ständigt undvikit de frågeställningarna och istället bara låtsats som om de dokument som citerats inte existerar. Om det är någon som förtjänar beteckningen historieförnekare är det pajasar som du och Dr Tinnitus.---”
Citat:
https://www.flashback.org/sp28276142
While the refutation presented by the revisionists alone is enough to make the orthodox “Holocaust“ story collapse like a house of cards, the proponents and defenders of the officially sanctioned exterminationist hypothesis, while doing their best to counter the revisionist onslaught with censorship and various damage control tactics, keep repeating over and over the same question: If the Jews were not gassed, where did they go?
One might argue that the revisionists have no obligation to answer this question. From a moral standpoint this argument is fully valid. As in a court of law, the exterminationists must prove that the crime they allege really took place – the burden of proof is on the accuser. Moreover, since the revisionists have proven that the crime – i.e. the mass gassings – did not take place, they have no moral obligation to search for the missing, alleged victim of the fictional crime. On the other hand, from a scientific viewpoint the question posed by the exterminationists is also fully valid, even if it usually uttered as a merely rhetorical question and part of anti-revisionist propaganda.
One might argue that the revisionists have no obligation to answer this question. From a moral standpoint this argument is fully valid. As in a court of law, the exterminationists must prove that the crime they allege really took place – the burden of proof is on the accuser. Moreover, since the revisionists have proven that the crime – i.e. the mass gassings – did not take place, they have no moral obligation to search for the missing, alleged victim of the fictional crime. On the other hand, from a scientific viewpoint the question posed by the exterminationists is also fully valid, even if it usually uttered as a merely rhetorical question and part of anti-revisionist propaganda.
2013-01-27, 17:26
#1808
Citat:
Mycket bra och informativt inlägg Skoll (som jag tyvärr var tvungen att redigera för att få plats med >tiotusen tecken).
Ursprungligen postat av Skoll
Nej det gör de inte. Det räcker med en enkel undersökning av de revisionistiska argumenten för att inse att holohoaxen är en stor saga. Ta bara det faktum att det inte finns någon som helst bevis för massmorden. Kan du plocka fram en order där Hitler beordrar förintelsen, eller tror du likt Raul Hillberg att det skedde genom telepati?
Klart att det går att döda människor, men inte på de sätt som dagens historieskrivning säger att det skedde under holyhoaxen. Diesel är exempelvis inte så särskilt effektiv för att döda människor med (såsom ska ha skett i bland annat Treblinka) och gasningarna med Zyklon-B som vittnena pratar om skulle inte ha kunnat inträffa som de säger och det finns inte heller några spår efter Zyklon-b i krematorierna i Auschwitz.
Det finns belägg för att de skeppades österut vilket jag har postat tidigare i tråden, det är inte samma sak som att jag kan visa exakt vart de tog vägen. Det finns en skillnad mellan att göra en rimlig gissning utifrån vad som är troligt och efter de bevis som finns till hands och att bara blint tro på en saga utan de minsta bevis (vilket ni gör).
Jurgen Graf skriver;
”---Even more problematic for Holocaust historians, perhaps, is the deportation of a considerable number of Jews from western European countries to the occupied Soviet territories (notably to the Baltic lands and Belarus). Deportations of German and Czech Jews to Riga (Latvia) and Minsk (Belarus) have been dealt with in detail by Raul Hilberg, who also emphasizes in his three-volume study the economic importance of Jewish prisoners working in those territories. He writes, for example, of "a widespread demand for Jewish workers," and that in Riga German and Latvian Jews worked for the SS, the army, the navy, the air force, the railroad, and in commercial enterprises.[note 21]
Jews were being deported from Germany to Riga in December 1941. In that same month, according to orthodox historiography, the first so-called "extermination camp" was opened at Chelmno, and in March of 1942, a second "extermination camp" supposedly began operation at Belzec. Given that a camp does not appear overnight, the decision to build Chelmno and Belzec must have been made quite some time earlier. In Hilberg's view, everything points to a decision having been made by Hitler before the end of the Summer of 1941 to annihilate the Jews, that is, at least two months before the deportation of German Jews to Riga and Minsk.[note 22] If so, why then were Jews who were supposedly destined for extermination deported from Germany to far-off Riga and Minsk rather than to the much closer "extermination camps" of Chelmno and Belzec? The argument that they were temporarily spared because they were needed as workers in the occupied Soviet territories simply does not hold up. As Hilberg reports, many of these German Jewish deportees were "cripples, war invalids, and people over 70 years of age"[note 23] who were utterly unsuited for employment. Such people would "logically" have been sent straight to the "extermination camps" (if such existed).---”
Schwitz största judiska tidning (Israelitisches Wochenblatt für die Schweiz) rapporterade i Oktober 1942;
”--- For some time there has been the tendency to dissolve the ghettos in Poland. That was the case with Lublin, and now Warsaw is to follow. It is not known to what extent this plan has already been carried out. The previous inhabitants of the ghettos are going off farther to the East into the occupied Russian territory. They were partially replaced by Jews from Germany ... An eyewitness, who until recently was in Riga and was able to escape, reports that there are still 32,000 Jews in the Riga ghetto. Since the occupation, thousands of Jews died. The Jews must assemble in the morning for compulsory labor outside the city ... Recently, in Riga, it has been noticed that transports of Jews from Belgium and other western European countries, which, however immediately go on further to unknown destinations.---”
Graf kommenterar detta med;
”---According to the official historiography, however, there were six extermination camps in October 1942. If so, why would the deported Jews have been transported far to the east of the six "death centers" to the occupied Soviet territories? Defenders of the orthodox "Holocaust" story, who hold that the Belgian Jews would never have been allowed to reach the occupied Eastern territories, are simply unable to answer such elementary questions.---”
Den franska underground kommunistiska tidningen Notre Voix rapporterade i april 1944
”---News that will please all the Jews of France was broadcast by Radio Moscow. Who among us has not had a brother, a sister, a spouse or a parent among those deported from Paris? And who will not rejoice when he hears that 8,000 Paris Jews have been rescued by the glorious Red Army! One of them reported on Radio Moscow how he was saved from death together with 8,000 other Paris Jews. They all found themselves in Ukraine at the time of the latest Soviet offensive, and the SS bandits wanted to shoot them before they left the country.---”
Graf skriver om fler vittnesmål från judar som påträffades långt öster om förintelselägren;
”--- It is quite obvious that for many Jews from Belgium and other western European countries, Auschwitz served merely as a transit camp. The article from the Swiss Jewish weekly cited above is no isolated case. Two revisionist authors, the Spaniard Enrique Aynat and the Frenchman Jean-Marie Boisdefeu,[note 26] have found additional examples. Here are some of them:
A Slovak Jew, Gisi Fleischman, reported in March of 1943 that in the region of Lublin (Poland), he encountered other Slovak Jews, as well as Belgian Jews.[note 27]
In 1942 Jews from Belgium, Netherlands and France arrived by train in Lvov (Lviv), Ukraine, according to testimony of the eyewitness I. Hertz provided in 1946 by the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee of the USSR.[note 28]---”
Här skriver Graf om ett tyskt dokument som styrker detta;
”---In addition, some surviving German wartime documents also refer to the deportation of western European Jews to the occupied Soviet territories. On August 28, 1942, an SS conference on "the Jewish question" was held in Berlin, at which specific problems arising from the deportations were discussed. The official record of the conference included the following on deportations of stateless Jews from France:[note 30]
During the course of the discussion, SS Lt. Colonel [Obersturmbannführer] Eichmann made known that the current evacuation problem (deportation of the stateless Jews) should be concluded by the end of this calendar year. The end of June 1943 is anticipated as a deadline for the deportation of the remaining foreign Jews ... Eichmann requested the immediate purchase of the barracks that had been ordered[/b] by the Commander of the Security Police in the Hague [Netherlands]. That camp is to be built in Russia. The transport of the barracks can be arranged so that three to five barracks can be taken along with each transport train.
The implication of this document is clear: Only a portion of the Jews who had been deported from France to Auschwitz remained in the camp. The remainder were transported further east, namely to the occupied Eastern territories ("Russia"), where a camp was to be built for them. The barracks for this camp were to be transported by train.---”
Det finns betydligt fler bevis om man läser länken som jag nämnde tidigare.
Klart att det går att döda människor, men inte på de sätt som dagens historieskrivning säger att det skedde under holyhoaxen. Diesel är exempelvis inte så särskilt effektiv för att döda människor med (såsom ska ha skett i bland annat Treblinka) och gasningarna med Zyklon-B som vittnena pratar om skulle inte ha kunnat inträffa som de säger och det finns inte heller några spår efter Zyklon-b i krematorierna i Auschwitz.
Det finns belägg för att de skeppades österut vilket jag har postat tidigare i tråden, det är inte samma sak som att jag kan visa exakt vart de tog vägen. Det finns en skillnad mellan att göra en rimlig gissning utifrån vad som är troligt och efter de bevis som finns till hands och att bara blint tro på en saga utan de minsta bevis (vilket ni gör).
Jurgen Graf skriver;
”---Even more problematic for Holocaust historians, perhaps, is the deportation of a considerable number of Jews from western European countries to the occupied Soviet territories (notably to the Baltic lands and Belarus). Deportations of German and Czech Jews to Riga (Latvia) and Minsk (Belarus) have been dealt with in detail by Raul Hilberg, who also emphasizes in his three-volume study the economic importance of Jewish prisoners working in those territories. He writes, for example, of "a widespread demand for Jewish workers," and that in Riga German and Latvian Jews worked for the SS, the army, the navy, the air force, the railroad, and in commercial enterprises.[note 21]
Jews were being deported from Germany to Riga in December 1941. In that same month, according to orthodox historiography, the first so-called "extermination camp" was opened at Chelmno, and in March of 1942, a second "extermination camp" supposedly began operation at Belzec. Given that a camp does not appear overnight, the decision to build Chelmno and Belzec must have been made quite some time earlier. In Hilberg's view, everything points to a decision having been made by Hitler before the end of the Summer of 1941 to annihilate the Jews, that is, at least two months before the deportation of German Jews to Riga and Minsk.[note 22] If so, why then were Jews who were supposedly destined for extermination deported from Germany to far-off Riga and Minsk rather than to the much closer "extermination camps" of Chelmno and Belzec? The argument that they were temporarily spared because they were needed as workers in the occupied Soviet territories simply does not hold up. As Hilberg reports, many of these German Jewish deportees were "cripples, war invalids, and people over 70 years of age"[note 23] who were utterly unsuited for employment. Such people would "logically" have been sent straight to the "extermination camps" (if such existed).---”
Schwitz största judiska tidning (Israelitisches Wochenblatt für die Schweiz) rapporterade i Oktober 1942;
”--- For some time there has been the tendency to dissolve the ghettos in Poland. That was the case with Lublin, and now Warsaw is to follow. It is not known to what extent this plan has already been carried out. The previous inhabitants of the ghettos are going off farther to the East into the occupied Russian territory. They were partially replaced by Jews from Germany ... An eyewitness, who until recently was in Riga and was able to escape, reports that there are still 32,000 Jews in the Riga ghetto. Since the occupation, thousands of Jews died. The Jews must assemble in the morning for compulsory labor outside the city ... Recently, in Riga, it has been noticed that transports of Jews from Belgium and other western European countries, which, however immediately go on further to unknown destinations.---”
Graf kommenterar detta med;
”---According to the official historiography, however, there were six extermination camps in October 1942. If so, why would the deported Jews have been transported far to the east of the six "death centers" to the occupied Soviet territories? Defenders of the orthodox "Holocaust" story, who hold that the Belgian Jews would never have been allowed to reach the occupied Eastern territories, are simply unable to answer such elementary questions.---”
Den franska underground kommunistiska tidningen Notre Voix rapporterade i april 1944
”---News that will please all the Jews of France was broadcast by Radio Moscow. Who among us has not had a brother, a sister, a spouse or a parent among those deported from Paris? And who will not rejoice when he hears that 8,000 Paris Jews have been rescued by the glorious Red Army! One of them reported on Radio Moscow how he was saved from death together with 8,000 other Paris Jews. They all found themselves in Ukraine at the time of the latest Soviet offensive, and the SS bandits wanted to shoot them before they left the country.---”
Graf skriver om fler vittnesmål från judar som påträffades långt öster om förintelselägren;
”--- It is quite obvious that for many Jews from Belgium and other western European countries, Auschwitz served merely as a transit camp. The article from the Swiss Jewish weekly cited above is no isolated case. Two revisionist authors, the Spaniard Enrique Aynat and the Frenchman Jean-Marie Boisdefeu,[note 26] have found additional examples. Here are some of them:
A Slovak Jew, Gisi Fleischman, reported in March of 1943 that in the region of Lublin (Poland), he encountered other Slovak Jews, as well as Belgian Jews.[note 27]
In 1942 Jews from Belgium, Netherlands and France arrived by train in Lvov (Lviv), Ukraine, according to testimony of the eyewitness I. Hertz provided in 1946 by the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee of the USSR.[note 28]---”
Här skriver Graf om ett tyskt dokument som styrker detta;
”---In addition, some surviving German wartime documents also refer to the deportation of western European Jews to the occupied Soviet territories. On August 28, 1942, an SS conference on "the Jewish question" was held in Berlin, at which specific problems arising from the deportations were discussed. The official record of the conference included the following on deportations of stateless Jews from France:[note 30]
During the course of the discussion, SS Lt. Colonel [Obersturmbannführer] Eichmann made known that the current evacuation problem (deportation of the stateless Jews) should be concluded by the end of this calendar year. The end of June 1943 is anticipated as a deadline for the deportation of the remaining foreign Jews ... Eichmann requested the immediate purchase of the barracks that had been ordered[/b] by the Commander of the Security Police in the Hague [Netherlands]. That camp is to be built in Russia. The transport of the barracks can be arranged so that three to five barracks can be taken along with each transport train.
The implication of this document is clear: Only a portion of the Jews who had been deported from France to Auschwitz remained in the camp. The remainder were transported further east, namely to the occupied Eastern territories ("Russia"), where a camp was to be built for them. The barracks for this camp were to be transported by train.---”
Det finns betydligt fler bevis om man läser länken som jag nämnde tidigare.
Det du hänvisar till omkullkastar hela fabeln om 6 miljoner mördade martyrer och påståendet att Hitlertyskland förde en genocidal politik gentemot judar. Det är märkligt, och till viss del roande, när de troende hela tiden hänvisar till ”historikerna”, precis som de vore en allenarådande helig allians, vilket naturligtvis inte alls är sant.
Här en gammal artikel från Jewish Telegraphic Agency från 9:e februari 1945 som vederlägger påståendet om tysk massmordspolitik och Babords eviga ältande om holländska och franska judar:
Citat:
http://archive.jta.org/article/1945/02/09/2866478/gestapo-agrees-to-release-jews-from-camps-1200-reach-switzerland-more-due-today
One of the most fantastic feats of rescue of Jewish internees from German concentration camps has been accomplished by a group of twenty orthodox Swiss Jews who sent Jean M. Musy, a former member of the Swiss Federal Council, to Gestapo chief Heinrich Himmler in order to negotiate with him concerning the fate of Jews remaining in Germany.
As a result of the negotiations, a group of 1,200 Jews released from the concentration camp in Theresienstadt arrived in Switzerland last night from Germany, and 540 more are expected to arrive here tomorrow. The release of these internees is considered a very important achievement.
Addressing a press conference today, Swiss Minister of Justice, Eduard von Steiger, said that it is hoped that henceforth regular transports of Jews from Germany will arrive in Switzerland. All the arrivals, he declared, will be placed in refugee camps in Switzerland and will be obliged to leave the country at the earliest possible date.
About one-half of the 1,200 Jews from Theresienstadt are natives of Holland who were deported by the Germans from Amsterdam and other Dutch cities. There are also 58 children under the age of 12 in the group. The remainder are Jews from Germany and Czechoslovakia. The 540 Jews who are expected to reach Switzerland tomorrow are deportees from France. The refugees from Theresienstadt were given food to last for the three-day trip from the camp to the Swiss frontier.
As a result of the negotiations, a group of 1,200 Jews released from the concentration camp in Theresienstadt arrived in Switzerland last night from Germany, and 540 more are expected to arrive here tomorrow. The release of these internees is considered a very important achievement.
Addressing a press conference today, Swiss Minister of Justice, Eduard von Steiger, said that it is hoped that henceforth regular transports of Jews from Germany will arrive in Switzerland. All the arrivals, he declared, will be placed in refugee camps in Switzerland and will be obliged to leave the country at the earliest possible date.
About one-half of the 1,200 Jews from Theresienstadt are natives of Holland who were deported by the Germans from Amsterdam and other Dutch cities. There are also 58 children under the age of 12 in the group. The remainder are Jews from Germany and Czechoslovakia. The 540 Jews who are expected to reach Switzerland tomorrow are deportees from France. The refugees from Theresienstadt were given food to last for the three-day trip from the camp to the Swiss frontier.
2013-01-27, 17:34
#1809
2013-01-27, 17:58
#1810
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av BlizzardKing
Kan inte låta bli att kommentera även om det är sent omsider. "Ausrotten" betydde vid tidpunkten de facto "rycka upp med rötterna", avlägsna eller utrota och betyder så än idag. Att det sedan översatts av ortodox litteratur till att betyda "fysisk förintelse" handlar mera om propaganda än om sanning. För övrigt kan aldrig, och ska aldrig, ett tal hållas som ett bevis för en händelse.
http://justice4germans.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/veronica-clark-hitler-himmler-uncensored/
http://justice4germans.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/veronica-clark-hitler-himmler-uncensored/
Just precis !! UTROTA vilken menas, lika med fysiskt förintelse av fysiskt element. Vilket också uppenbarades tydligt.
2013-01-27, 18:04
#1811
Citat:
Nej ! Det stämmer ej, finns ingenting kopplat till det. Eller du kan förankra det påståendet?
Ursprungligen postat av BlizzardKing
Vilket otroligt nonsens du kommer med Babord, igen! Det är det judiska narrativet som försöker vända på historien till deras fördel. Kristallnatten var, precis som Ingrid Weckert beskrivit, en åtgärd utförd av judiska huliganer och naturligtvis inte av Hitler eller NSDAP, då de förstås inte hade tjänat ett dugg på en dylik åtgärd:
http://hofflandia.wordpress.com/kristallnacht-or-in-english-the-%E2%80%9Cnight-of-broken-glass-is-a-jew-fraud-%E2%80%93-by-hoff/
http://hofflandia.wordpress.com/kristallnacht-or-in-english-the-%E2%80%9Cnight-of-broken-glass-is-a-jew-fraud-%E2%80%93-by-hoff/
Vad jag veterligen vet så hände en massa saker med judarna, och tro de skulle utmana det ödet, tro jag väldigt lite på.
JA! Det blide starten till legalisera utrotningen.
Finns ju en orsak det heter kristallnatten.
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