Då diskussionen i tillverka amfetamin alltmer har börjat handla om MDMA-tillverkning så startar jag en ny tråd.
Saker vi diskuterar:
Vilka olika metoder det finns och hur dessa fungerar.
Vilka råvaror behövs och hur man skaffar/producerar dessa.
Vilken utrustning behövs och hur man skaffar/producerar denna.
Hur man gör detta så lätt att ett barn förstår hur man gör.
Saker vi inte diskuterar:
Hur otroligt svårt/farligt/omöjligt det är. Det leder inte framåt.
Hur meningslöst det är eftersom man kan köpa det superduperbilligt av någon annan.
Hur mycket man tycker om att använda MDMA, vilka sorter man tagit osv.
Tanken är alltså att vi gemensamt som kollektiv tar fram en steg för steg guide i hur man gör.
Lista på metoder....
Det finns hittills två metoder
En där man utgår från Safrol
(vettig beskrivning saknas då Shulgin inte riktar sig till lekmän)
En där man utgår från Piperonal
(vettig beskrivning saknas då Shulgin inte riktar sig till lekmän)
Det måste väl finnas fler sätt?
__________________
Senast redigerad av PhineasTFreakears 2011-01-11 kl. 18:34.
There are about twenty different synthetic routes in the literature for the preparation of MDA. Many start with piperonal, and employ it to make methylenedioxyphenylacetone or a methylenedioxydihydro-cinnamic acid amide instead of the nitrostyrene. The phenylacetone can be reduced in several ways other than the cyanoborohydride method mentioned here, and the amide can be rearranged directly to MDA. And there are additional methods for the reduction of the nitrostyrene that use no lithium aluminum hydride. Also there are procedures that have safrole or isosafrole as starting points. There is even one in the underground literature that starts with sassafras root bark. In fact, it is because safrole is one of the ten essential oils that MDA can humorously be referred to as one of the Ten Essential Amphetamines. See the comments under TMA.
SYNTHESIS: (from MDA) A solution of 6.55 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) as the free base and 2.8 mL formic acid in 150 mL benzene was held at reflux under a Dean Stark trap until no further H2O was generated (about 20 h was sufficient, and 1.4 mL H2O was collected). Removal of the solvent gave an 8.8 g of an amber oil which was dissolved in 100 mL CH2Cl2, washed first with dilute HCl, then with dilute NaOH, and finally once again with dilute acid. The solvent was removed under vacuum giving 7.7 g of an amber oil that, on standing, formed crystals of N-formyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine. An alternate process for the synthesis of this amide involved holding at reflux for 16 h a solution of 10 g of MDA as the free base in 20 mL fresh ethyl formate. Removal of the volatiles yielded an oil that set up to white crystals, weighing 7.8 g.
A solution of 7.7 g N-formyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine in 25 mL anhydrous THF was added dropwise to a well stirred and refluxing solution of 7.4 g LAH in 600 mL anhydrous THF under an inert atmosphere. The reaction mixture was held at reflux for 4 days. After being brought to room temperature, the excess hydride was destroyed with 7.4 mL H2O in an equal volume of THF, followed by 7.4 mL of 15% NaOH and then another 22 mL H2O. The solids were removed by filtration, and the filter cake washed with additional THF. The combined filtrate and washes were stripped of solvent under vacuum, and the residue dissolved in 200 mL CH2Cl2. This solution was extracted with 3x100 mL dilute HCl, and these extracts pooled and made basic with 25% NaOH. Extraction with 3x75 mL CH2Cl2 removed the product, and the pooled extracts were stripped of solvent under vacuum. There was obtained 6.5 g of a nearly white residue which was distilled at 100-110 ° C at 0.4 mm/Hg to give 5.0 g of a colorless oil. This was dissolved in 25 mL IPA, neutralized with concentrated HCl, followed by the addition of sufficient anhydrous Et2O to produce a lasting turbidity. On continued stirring, there was the deposition of fine white crystals of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine hydrochloride (MDMA) which were removed by filtration, washed with Et2O, and air dried, giving a final weight of 4.8 g.
(from 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone) This key intermediate to all of the MD-series can be made from either isosafrole, or from piperonal via 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-nitropropene. To a well stirred solution of 34 g of 30% hydrogen peroxide in 150 g 80% formic acid there was added, dropwise, a solution of 32.4 g isosafrole in 120 mL acetone at a rate that kept the reaction mixture from exceeding 40 ° C. This required a bit over 1 h, and external cooling was used as necessary. Stirring was continued for 16 h, and care was taken that the slow exothermic reaction did not cause excess heating. An external bath with running water worked well. During this time the solution progressed from an orange color to a deep red. All volatile components were removed under vacuum which yielded some 60 g of a very deep red residue. This was dissolved in 60 mL of MeOH, treated with 360 mL of 15% H2SO4, and heated for 3 h on the steam bath. After cooling, the reaction mixture was extracted with 3x75 mL Et2O, the pooled extracts washed first with H2O and then with dilute NaOH, and the solvent removed under vacuum The residue was distilled (at 2.0 mm/108-112 ° C, or at about 160 ° C at the water pump) to provide 20.6 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone as a pale yellow oil. The oxime (from hydroxylamine) had a mp of 85-88 ° C. The semicarbazone had a mp of 162-163 ° C.
An alternate synthesis of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone starts originally from piperonal. A suspension of 32 g electrolytic iron in 140 mL glacial acetic acid was gradually warmed on the steam bath. When quite hot but not yet with any white salts apparent, there was added, a bit at a time, a solution of 10.0 g of 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-nitropropene in 75 mL acetic acid (see the synthesis of MDA for the preparation of this nitrostyrene intermediate from piperonal and nitroethane). This addition was conducted at a rate that permitted a vigorous reaction free from excessive frothing. The orange color of the reaction mixture became very reddish with the formation of white salts and a dark crust. After the addition was complete, the heating was continued for an additional 1.5 h during which time the body of the reaction mixture became quite white with the product appeared as a black oil climbing the sides of the beaker. This mixture was added to 2 L H2O, extracted with 3x100 mL CH2Cl2, and the pooled extracts washed with several portions of dilute NaOH. After the removal of the solvent under vacuum, the residue was distilled at reduced pressure (see above) to provide 8.0 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone as a pale yellow oil.
To 40 g of thin aluminum foil cut in 1 inch squares (in a 2 L wide mouth Erlenmeyer flask) there was added 1400 mL H2O containing 1 g mercuric chloride. Amalgamation was allowed to proceed until there was the evolution of fine bubbles, the formation of a light grey precipitate, and the appearance of occasional silvery spots on the surface of the aluminum. This takes between 15 and 30 min depending on the freshness of the surfaces, the temperature of the H2O, and the thickness of the aluminum foil. (Aluminum foil thickness varies from country to country.) The H2O was removed by decantation, and the aluminum was washed with 2x1400 mL of fresh H2O. The residual H2O from the final washing was removed as thoroughly as possible by shaking, and there was added, in succession and with swirling, 60 g methylamine hydrochloride dissolved in 60 mL warm H2O, 180 mL IPA, 145 mL 25% NaOH, 53 g 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone, and finally 350 mL IPA. If the available form of methylamine is the aqueous solution of the free base, the following sequence can be substituted: add, in succession, 76 mL 40% aqueous methylamine, 180 mL IPA, a suspension of 50 g NaCl in 140 mL H2O that contains 25 mL 25% NaOH, 53 g 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone, and finally 350 mL IPA. The exothermic reaction was kept below 60 ° C with occasional immersion into cold water and, when it was thermally stable, it was allowed to stand until it had returned to room temperature with all the insolubles settled to the bottom as a grey sludge. The clear yellow overhead was decanted and the sludge removed by filtration and washed with MeOH. The combined decantation, mother liquors and washes, were stripped of solvent under vacuum, the residue suspended in 2400 ml of H2O, and sufficient HCl added to make the phase distinctly acidic. This was then washed with 3x75 mL CH2Cl2, made basic with 25% NaOH, and extracted with 3x100 mL of CH2Cl2. After removal of the solvent from the combined extracts, there remained 55 g of an amber oil which was distilled at 100-110 ° C at 0.4 mm/Hg producing 41 g of an off-white liquid. This was dissolved in 200 mL IPA, neutralized with about 17 mL of concentrated HCl, and then treated with 400 mL anhydrous Et2O. After filtering off the white crystals, washing with an IPA/Et2O mixture, (2:1), with Et2O, and final air drying, there was obtained 42.0 g of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine (MDMA) as a fine white crystal. The actual form that the final salt takes depends upon the temperature and concentration at the moment of the initial crystallization. It can be anhydrous, or it can be any of several hydrated forms. Only the anhydrous form has a sharp mp; the published reports describe all possible one degree melting point values over the range from 148-153 ° C. The variously hydrated polymorphs have distinct infrared spectra, but have broad mps that depend on the rate of heating.
Då diskussionen i tillverka amfetamin alltmer har börjat handla om MDMA-tillverkning så startar jag en ny tråd.
Saker vi diskuterar:
Vilka olika metoder det finns och hur dessa fungerar.
Vilka råvaror behövs och hur man skaffar/producerar dessa.
Vilken utrustning behövs och hur man skaffar/producerar denna.
Hur man gör detta så lätt att ett barn förstår hur man gör.
Saker vi inte diskuterar:
Hur otroligt svårt/farligt/omöjligt det är. Det leder inte framåt.
Hur meningslöst det är eftersom man kan köpa det superduperbilligt av någon annan.
Hur mycket man tycker om att använda MDMA, vilka sorter man tagit osv.
Tanken är alltså att vi gemensamt som kollektiv tar fram en steg för steg guide i hur man gör.
Utmärkt trådstart, jag vill understryka det fetstilade.
Sen tycker jag vi kan hålla oss någorlunda till ämnet, så att det inte blir som alla tillverka amfetamin-trådar, som tillslut handlar om att göra metamfetamin och hur farligt det är etc.
SYNTHESIS: (from MDA) A solution of 6.55 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) as the free base and 2.8 mL formic acid in 150 mL benzene was held at reflux under a Dean Stark trap until no further H2O was generated (about 20 h was sufficient, and 1.4 mL H2O was collected). Removal of the solvent gave an 8.8 g of an amber oil which was dissolved in 100 mL CH2Cl2, washed first with dilute HCl, then with dilute NaOH, and finally once again with dilute acid. The solvent was removed under vacuum giving 7.7 g of an amber oil that, on standing, formed crystals of N-formyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine. An alternate process for the synthesis of this amide involved holding at reflux for 16 h a solution of 10 g of MDA as the free base in 20 mL fresh ethyl formate. Removal of the volatiles yielded an oil that set up to white crystals, weighing 7.8 g.
A solution of 7.7 g N-formyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine in 25 mL anhydrous THF was added dropwise to a well stirred and refluxing solution of 7.4 g LAH in 600 mL anhydrous THF under an inert atmosphere. The reaction mixture was held at reflux for 4 days. After being brought to room temperature, the excess hydride was destroyed with 7.4 mL H2O in an equal volume of THF, followed by 7.4 mL of 15% NaOH and then another 22 mL H2O. The solids were removed by filtration, and the filter cake washed with additional THF. The combined filtrate and washes were stripped of solvent under vacuum, and the residue dissolved in 200 mL CH2Cl2. This solution was extracted with 3x100 mL dilute HCl, and these extracts pooled and made basic with 25% NaOH. Extraction with 3x75 mL CH2Cl2 removed the product, and the pooled extracts were stripped of solvent under vacuum. There was obtained 6.5 g of a nearly white residue which was distilled at 100-110 ° C at 0.4 mm/Hg to give 5.0 g of a colorless oil. This was dissolved in 25 mL IPA, neutralized with concentrated HCl, followed by the addition of sufficient anhydrous Et2O to produce a lasting turbidity. On continued stirring, there was the deposition of fine white crystals of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine hydrochloride (MDMA) which were removed by filtration, washed with Et2O, and air dried, giving a final weight of 4.8 g.
(from 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone) This key intermediate to all of the MD-series can be made from either isosafrole, or from piperonal via 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-nitropropene. To a well stirred solution of 34 g of 30% hydrogen peroxide in 150 g 80% formic acid there was added, dropwise, a solution of 32.4 g isosafrole in 120 mL acetone at a rate that kept the reaction mixture from exceeding 40 ° C. This required a bit over 1 h, and external cooling was used as necessary. Stirring was continued for 16 h, and care was taken that the slow exothermic reaction did not cause excess heating. An external bath with running water worked well. During this time the solution progressed from an orange color to a deep red. All volatile components were removed under vacuum which yielded some 60 g of a very deep red residue. This was dissolved in 60 mL of MeOH, treated with 360 mL of 15% H2SO4, and heated for 3 h on the steam bath. After cooling, the reaction mixture was extracted with 3x75 mL Et2O, the pooled extracts washed first with H2O and then with dilute NaOH, and the solvent removed under vacuum The residue was distilled (at 2.0 mm/108-112 ° C, or at about 160 ° C at the water pump) to provide 20.6 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone as a pale yellow oil. The oxime (from hydroxylamine) had a mp of 85-88 ° C. The semicarbazone had a mp of 162-163 ° C.
An alternate synthesis of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone starts originally from piperonal. A suspension of 32 g electrolytic iron in 140 mL glacial acetic acid was gradually warmed on the steam bath. When quite hot but not yet with any white salts apparent, there was added, a bit at a time, a solution of 10.0 g of 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-nitropropene in 75 mL acetic acid (see the synthesis of MDA for the preparation of this nitrostyrene intermediate from piperonal and nitroethane). This addition was conducted at a rate that permitted a vigorous reaction free from excessive frothing. The orange color of the reaction mixture became very reddish with the formation of white salts and a dark crust. After the addition was complete, the heating was continued for an additional 1.5 h during which time the body of the reaction mixture became quite white with the product appeared as a black oil climbing the sides of the beaker. This mixture was added to 2 L H2O, extracted with 3x100 mL CH2Cl2, and the pooled extracts washed with several portions of dilute NaOH. After the removal of the solvent under vacuum, the residue was distilled at reduced pressure (see above) to provide 8.0 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone as a pale yellow oil.
To 40 g of thin aluminum foil cut in 1 inch squares (in a 2 L wide mouth Erlenmeyer flask) there was added 1400 mL H2O containing 1 g mercuric chloride. Amalgamation was allowed to proceed until there was the evolution of fine bubbles, the formation of a light grey precipitate, and the appearance of occasional silvery spots on the surface of the aluminum. This takes between 15 and 30 min depending on the freshness of the surfaces, the temperature of the H2O, and the thickness of the aluminum foil. (Aluminum foil thickness varies from country to country.) The H2O was removed by decantation, and the aluminum was washed with 2x1400 mL of fresh H2O. The residual H2O from the final washing was removed as thoroughly as possible by shaking, and there was added, in succession and with swirling, 60 g methylamine hydrochloride dissolved in 60 mL warm H2O, 180 mL IPA, 145 mL 25% NaOH, 53 g 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone, and finally 350 mL IPA. If the available form of methylamine is the aqueous solution of the free base, the following sequence can be substituted: add, in succession, 76 mL 40% aqueous methylamine, 180 mL IPA, a suspension of 50 g NaCl in 140 mL H2O that contains 25 mL 25% NaOH, 53 g 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone, and finally 350 mL IPA. The exothermic reaction was kept below 60 ° C with occasional immersion into cold water and, when it was thermally stable, it was allowed to stand until it had returned to room temperature with all the insolubles settled to the bottom as a grey sludge. The clear yellow overhead was decanted and the sludge removed by filtration and washed with MeOH. The combined decantation, mother liquors and washes, were stripped of solvent under vacuum, the residue suspended in 2400 ml of H2O, and sufficient HCl added to make the phase distinctly acidic. This was then washed with 3x75 mL CH2Cl2, made basic with 25% NaOH, and extracted with 3x100 mL of CH2Cl2. After removal of the solvent from the combined extracts, there remained 55 g of an amber oil which was distilled at 100-110 ° C at 0.4 mm/Hg producing 41 g of an off-white liquid. This was dissolved in 200 mL IPA, neutralized with about 17 mL of concentrated HCl, and then treated with 400 mL anhydrous Et2O. After filtering off the white crystals, washing with an IPA/Et2O mixture, (2:1), with Et2O, and final air drying, there was obtained 42.0 g of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine (MDMA) as a fine white crystal. The actual form that the final salt takes depends upon the temperature and concentration at the moment of the initial crystallization. It can be anhydrous, or it can be any of several hydrated forms. Only the anhydrous form has a sharp mp; the published reports describe all possible one degree melting point values over the range from 148-153 ° C. The variously hydrated polymorphs have distinct infrared spectra, but have broad mps that depend on the rate of heating.
du kan ju börja med att försöka fixa kontakter i kambodjanska knark maffian!
Du kommer aldrig lyckas utan feta kontakter i europa och asien
Fast nu missförstår du ändå.
Till att börja med så har det tillkommit en hel del sätt att göra MDMA sedan Shulgin först gjorde det.
Vidare så utgår receptet du just skickade från MDA som i mitt tycke är en mycket bättre drog, och av många tros vara MDMA de gånger de tagit det.
Sedan var ju inte det där receptet direkt så att ett barn förstod det.
Om du sedan läser första inlägget så ser du att inlägg som går ut på att det är omöjligt är OT.
Jag tackar ändå för ditt bidrag. Vi utgår alltså från något som heter safrol för en rutt och piperonal via en annan.
Vidare föreslår du att kambodja är ett bra land. Thailand är svenskarnas populäraste turistort och när jag var där så åkte jag från Bangkok till Siem reap för ungefär 600kronor. Mycket riktigt fanns det gott om knark där. Menar du att jag ska köpa Safrol där? Finns det inget enklare sätt?
"feta kontakter i europa och asien" Kan du utveckla det?
Namn Innehåll
Cinnamomun camphorae 50% av träoljan är kamfer, men när den filtrerats bort är den resterande oljan 95% safrol
Illicium floridanum 90% av oljan
Illicium parviflorum 90% av oljan
Myristica fragrans Små mängder
Ocotea cymbarum 92% av träoljan
Ocotea pretiosa 1% av torkad vikt är olja. Den består av 90% safrol
Släktet Piper
Piper auritum 80% av oljan
Piper hispidinervum 86% av oljan från bladen
Sassafras albidum <85% av oljan. Rötterna innehåller mycket olja)
Safrol är även en prekursor som används för att tillverka MDA och MDMA. På grund av detta tillhör Safrol en grupp av ämnen s.k kontrollerade kemikalier och det krävs tillstånd etc. för import.
För att kunna få tag på de rätta kemikalierna så måste du ha goda kontakter.
Innan kunde man beställa det mesta från kina men efter OS så har det blivit mycket svårare att få tag på kemikalier b.la safrol.
Det är en av anledningarna till att mängden MDMA har minskat i europa.
Här är en som har gjort samma som du försöker göra:
Ahh, to be young and stupid again. (No disrespect, just brings back memories.)
Safrole is a chemical more properly called 5-(2-propenyl)-1,3-benzodioxole, it is a Schedule I chemical and requires a DEA permit for purchase. What you are looking for is Sassafras Essential Oil. A very good quality sassafras oil contains up to 98% safrole, but 75-80% is much more common.
I would never condone and never engaged in any illegal activity. Having said that I do have a chemistry degree, and several years experience in applied organic synthesis . So if you are looking for a mentor with whom you could have a purely theoretical discussion about the finer points of say Wacker oxidation reaction or the like I will be glad to help.
So years ago I had this friend who also wanted to buy some sassafras essential oil. This friend spent weeks searching the internet, found several sources and ended up getting it from a Chinese wholesale supplier. I asked my friend for the links that he used, and not surprisingly most of them either don't work at all (including the one he ended up using) at all or the place no longer sells this oil. But there is one place that still does:
It is expensive, my friend said that he paid about $50-60 per liter, vs $25 per ounce from this place. In fact with all the other chemicals and labware you going to need and considering the likely actual vs theoretical yields your production costs will be higher then street value at that price, but this is the best I can do for you.
Do your own homework, you might find it at a much more reasonable price. Alternatively if it you know your organic synthesis you can make safrole from phenol in 3 steps. Phenol is perfectly legal and dirt cheap. If you are lazy and have money you can buy Sesamol (3,4-Methylenedioxyphenol). It is a bit expensive but also completely unregulated. You can get it from China in kilogram quantities. It can be turned into safrole in 1 complicated reaction, or in 2 simple ones and you don't have to bother with methylenation which is not a reaction for a beginner organic chemist.
My final words of wisdom to you is that besides obvious legal risks doing this is an expensive proposition even if you are super thrifty. If you don't have access to a lab setting one up will cost at least $1000, and thats craigslist and patient ebay bidding prices. If you do it retail think more like $5000. You will need a dedicated room. You will spend about $500 on assorted chemicals, which you should not get from one place, people who work their are not stupid. Chances are the first time you try you will not succeed, or even the second. Making a batch will take about 40 hours of active labor, and about a week, that is once you know what you are doing. For first runs double that. This is not like the meth cooking you read about in the papers, where any idiot with a recipe can do it. It is serious organic chemistry which requires brains, preparation and practice. Don't even think about it unless you have taken Orgo I and II in college, an advanced organic synthesis course helps a lot. Good luck
Han skriver att du kommer få lägga ut ca 60 000 kr, ca 40 timmars hårt arbete under en veckas tid och att det krävs universitetskunskap inom organisk kemi (hemsidan han länkar till fungerar tyvärr inte)
För att kunna få tag på de rätta kemikalierna så måste du ha goda kontakter.
På så sätt. Vilka kontakter pratar du om nu?
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av FelGud
Innan kunde man beställa det mesta från kina men efter OS så har det blivit mycket svårare att få tag på kemikalier b.la safrol.
Det är en av anledningarna till att mängden MDMA har minskat i europa.
Ja, EN av anledningarna men kanske inte den viktigaste. Vet du detta för att det står på Flashback eller för att du provat beställa från Kina? Nu har OS varit. Kan det vara så att det inte längre är lika svårt att beställa? Kanske en prekursor till safrol?
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av FelGud
Safrol är även en prekursor som används för att tillverka MDA och MDMA. På grund av detta tillhör Safrol en grupp av ämnen s.k kontrollerade kemikalier och det krävs tillstånd etc. för import.
Safrol är mycket riktigt klassad som prekursor. Så även Sassafrasolja(Sassafras albidum). Men rötterna är inte klassade. Oljan utvinns lätt ur rötterna med en enkel destillation och därefter är vi igång.
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av FelGud
Cinnamomun camphorae 50% av träoljan är kamfer, men när den filtrerats bort är den resterande oljan 95% safrol
Illicium floridanum 90% av oljan
Illicium parviflorum 90% av oljan
Myristica fragrans Små mängder
Ocotea cymbarum 92% av träoljan
Ocotea pretiosa 1% av torkad vikt är olja. Den består av 90% safrol
Släktet Piper
Piper auritum 80% av oljan
Piper hispidinervum 86% av oljan från bladen
Sassafras albidum <85% av oljan. Rötterna innehåller mycket olja)
Min latin är så dålig. Har dessa växter några svenska namn? Och går de att få tag på? Kan inte du hjälpa mig att reda ut det här?
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av FelGud
Massa utdaterad engelsk text
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av FelGud
Han skriver att du kommer få lägga ut ca 60 000 kr, ca 40 timmars hårt arbete under en veckas tid och att det krävs universitetskunskap inom organisk kemi (hemsidan han länkar till fungerar tyvärr inte)
40 TIMMAR!!! Det är ju en tid som är så oöverskådligt lång att jag blir gråhårig bara jag tänker på det! Och även om jag mer tolkade hans text som att det kunde göras för ungefär tiotusen så är ju både 10tusen och 60tusen sådana enorma summor att bara Bill Gates har råd med det!
Tackar för hjälpen och lägger in safrolkällorna i listan.
Hade du orkat läsa på lite så hade du fått svaret. Det står bl.a i länkarna postade i den här tråden. Men för att ge ett kort och rakt svar så är MDMA en syntes av MDA.
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