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Ursprungligen postat av
Herkulesbig
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Ursprungligen postat av d00rkey
Du kan fortsätta med att fråga om detta. Du är knappast den första som har gjort det och återkommande gör det. Det är dock knappast någon spik i kistan så att säga för oss som anser att Förintelsen är ett historiskt faktum!
Men, i korthet; Varför skulle det över huvud taget finnas något sådant protokoll? Har du funderat på det? Brukar brottslingar obducera sina egna mordoffer?
He he he Jag har också undrat det! Men faktiskt tro jag Masterbiet hittade några notiser om det, som han hänvisade till.
Men som vanligt när man lägger fram det, så blir det tyst av någon konstig anledning heheheh
(FB) Varför tror du på förintelsen?
Som vanligt lades undringarna fram tidigare, t ex på sidan 130 i innevarande tråd:
(FB) Varför tror du på förintelsen?
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Tror du verkligen själv på att de som mördade miljontals judar dessutom obducerade kropparna?
/VV
(FB) Varför tror du på förintelsen?
Senare i #1555:
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Vet du någon historisk händelse där massmördare obducerat sina offer och lämnat efter sig obduktionsprotokollen?
Stalin? Pol Pot? Rwanda?
[...]
/VV
"Förintelsen" tycks ha varit en sådan händelse där offren obducerades, om man ska tro Dr Nyiszli - här är ett
googleplock på namnet:
https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=Nyizli&hl=sv&ie=U TF-8&rlz=1T4WQIB_svSE523SE524&q=dr+nyiszli&gs_l=hp..1 .0i5i10i30l2.0.0.0.5374...........0.4BAhl7u3ngA
Han gjorde obduktioner åt Dr Mengele, och han var inte ensam om det:
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WHAT MADE THIS MAN? MENGELE
By Robert Jay Lifton
Robert Jay Lifton is Distinguished Professor of Psychiatry and Psychology at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, City University of New York. This article is adapted from a book on Nazi doctors scheduled for publication next year by Basic Books.
[...]
MAINLY TO PURSUE HIS studies of twins, Mengele set up an Auschwitz caricature of an academic research institute. Inmate doctors, mostly Jewish, with specialized training in various laboratory and clinical areas, were called upon to contribute to his work by diagnosing, sometimes treating, X-raying and performing post-mortem examinations of his research subjects.For his pathologist, Dr. Miklos Nyiszli, he provided a special dissection room complete with porcelain sinks and a dissecting table of polished marble. The overall arrangement, as Dr. Nyiszli later wrote, was ''the exact replica of any large city's institute of pathology.'' In addition to the area used by SS physicians, Mengele had three offices of his own, mainly for work with twins.
http://academics.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/100/mengle.htm
Prof Lipton och Provan observerade att Dr Nyiszli utelämnade följande mord på zigenartvillingar i sin bok om Auschwitz:
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In his deposition, Nyiszli describes his and the other pathologist's duties as including taking the measurements of abnormal people, who were then shot by a German officer working for Mengele. The two doctors would then autopsy the victims, after which they would dissolve the bodies and ship the bones to a renowned anthropological institute in Berlin-Dahlem. On one night, according to Nyiszli, Mengele ordered the two pathologists to assist him with a group of fourteen Gypsy twins. Nyiszli, ordered by Mengele, undressed a fourteen-year-old girl, and placed her on the dissection table, whereupon Mengele gave her a shot to cause sleep, then killed her with a chloroform injection. She was then removed to another location. The remaining thirteen twins were one by one treated in the same manner. When all fourteen twins were dead, Mengele asked Nyiszli and his colleague how fast they could do the autopsies. They told him four a day, to which Mengele agreed. Interestingly, and disconcertingly, this story is omitted from Auschwitz. Dr. Lifton and I believe that it was left out due to Nyiszli's admitted involvement in the murders. In the absence of the threat of his own death, Nyiszli could be considered an accomplice.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n1p20_Provan.html
Medbrottslingen (
accomplice) rönte i stället ett öde grymmare än döden (
spared death for a grimmer fate), nämligen att hjälpa Mengele med experiment:
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A Jew and a medical doctor, the Auschwitz prisoner Miklos Nyiszli - No. A8450 - was spared death for a grimmer fate: to perform autopsies and 'scientific research' on his fellow inmates at Auschwitz under the supervision of Josef Mengele, the chief provider for the gas chambers.
Miraculously, Nyiszli survived to give an horrifying and sobering account, one of the first books to bring the full horror of the Nazi death camps to the public - Auschwitz: A Doctor's Eyewitness Account
.
http://www.auschwitz.dk/Nyiszli.htm
Miraklet att överleva lyckades eftersom även tyskarna såg obducenten som en medbrottsling:
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"It appeared that his respect also arose from the fact that he considered the dissection of bodies and his bloody job of killing to be allied activities."
Auschwitz: A Doctor's Eyewitness Account pp. 114-120
Provan har luskat ut att Auschwitzboken är en roman (novel) :
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When I read in the September 30, 1947, Vilag article that Miklos Nyiszli's book on his experiences at Auschwitz was a novel, it was as if a blindfold had fallen from my eyes. I had never considered this possibility before, but it certainly made sense on reading the article. It not only explained the inflated figures, the factual errors, and the singular account of the Sonderkommandos (thirteen in all!); it also removed all difficulties of "explaining away the details." Auschwitz is a novel. If a character in a novel meets a real personage, there is no historical issue to resolve. Dr. Nyiszli's 1945 deposition and his 1947 affidavit disagree with the book on many details because they are recording what he actually thought was the truth, while the book was deliberately crafted as a historical novel.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n1p20_Provan.html
Här är motsatt omdöme från mannen som studerat andra världskriget och Förintelsen under mer än 30 år:
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The Holocaust seems so distant, so far removed from our reality. For us, it is hard to even conceive of the massive horrors and atrocities committed by the Nazis. Dr. Miklos Nyiszli's recounting of the young girl is a direct eyewitness account and not repeated from hearsay.
/Louis Bülow
Ögonvittnesmål eller roman?
http://www.auschwitz.dk/Nyiszli.htm
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The Holocaust Website with stories of crimes, heroes and villains started 1996. It is based on more than 30 year's research into the topics of World War 2 and The Holocaust. Most of my articles have been published in newspapers and magazines.
Louis Bülow
All Rights Reserved ©2010-12.
http://www.auschwitz.dk/bullseye/new_page_5.htm
Romanen var Nyiszlis sätt att rädda sitt rykte efter kriget, dvs en motsvarighet till obducentverksamheten under Mengele, som i sin tur räddat hans fru och dotter :
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Dr. Nyiszli and his wife Margareta had one daughter, Susanna, born in 1929, while Dr. Nyiszli was attending medical school in Breslau.
[...]
His personal friend told me that everyone took notice when Nyiszli's daughter (who, like his wife, had survived Auschwitz) married a gentile after the war.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n1p20_Provan.html
Igen:
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Ursprungligen postat av
Herkulesbig
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Ursprungligen postat av d00rkey
[...]
Men, i korthet; Varför skulle det över huvud taget finnas något sådant protokoll? Har du funderat på det? Brukar brottslingar obducera sina egna mordoffer?
He he he Jag har också undrat det![...]
Det kanske
skulle obduceras
utan protokoll? dvs bara för nöjes skull?
"He he he" ?
Men varför fick judarna ta del i nöjeslivet? var det Mengeles motsvarighet till fotbollsplanen?
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“They put the ball into play. Sonorous laughter filled the courtyard,” writes Jewish doctor and Josef Mengele assistant Miklos Nyiszli in his eyewitness account of camp life. He continues:
The spectators became excited and shouted encouragement at the players, as if this were the playing field of some peaceful town. Stupefied, I made that mental note as well. Without waiting for the end of the match, I returned to my room. After supper I swallowed two sleeping tablets of ten centigrams each and fell asleep. A badly needed sleep, for I felt my nerves stretched to the breaking point. In such cases, sleeping tablets were the best remedy. (57–58)
http://www.theglobalgame.com/blog/2010/01/auschwitz-and-the-perversion-of-football/
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Ursprungligen postat av d00rkey
Men visst känns det bra att vissa utvalda och priviligerade fångar faktiskt hade möjlighet till viss rekreation lite då och då? Det nyanserar ju bilden av de onda "tyskarna" en aning i alla fall?
(FB) (WW2) - Auschwitz
Nyanserar obduktionerna också bilden en aning?
