Nimitz, TicTac och Douglas "Cheeks" Kurth

Ja det går väl bra så länge du är öppen med att du gissar - det är ju det som är poängen med tråden - varför finns det så lite information om Kurth trots att han var på platsen där Fravor och Dietrich påstår sig ha befunnits helt ensamma? Det bästa är förstås om du kan hjälpa till och gräva fram mer information om händelsen – var och när Kurth befann sig - varför han inte dök upp på någon radar. När återvände han till Nimitz i förhållande till de andra piloterna etc..???

Att Douglas Kurth skulle blåljuga om saken har jag svårt att tro - särskilt eftersom den troligen första versionen av Nimitzhändelsen på nätet skrevs ned av en pilot och nära vän till Fravor, och i den berättelsen ingår både Kurth och radarspaningsplanet innan Fravor/Dietrich kom till platsen - något som varken Fravor eller något av de andra vittnena verkar vilja kännas vid sedan ToTheStars och därefter NewYorkTimes släppte filmen och skrev om händelsen igen.

Tittar man på den första presentationen som ToTheStars höll av Nimitzhändelsen så har de till och med använt fotot på en partyballong som ligger som header på hemsidan där Fravors vän återger hans berättelse. Den används på bildskärmen bakom Chris Mellon när han berättar om Nimitz - så det är ju ganska uppenbart att de har använt hemsidan som källa - men de mörkar helt Kurths närvaro som sagt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMvvzSnh3Q4&t=952s

(Lyssna gärna på hela Mellons beskrivning av vad som hände vid det påstådda mötet - berättelsen har minst sagt ändrats sedan dess.... TicTacen påstås följa efter Fravor, Fravor påstås även filma objektet (han hade inte ens flir), tictacen påstås därefter förfölja Nimitz i timmar efteråt osv)
(Här är orginalet till bilden: https://rense.com/general67/ufoph.htm)

Är det inte märkligt att en person som ska ha varit på plats och varit ett av de ytterst få vittnena helt ignoreras, förutom just initialt när det skrevs om händelsen många år innan den blev rubriker i MSM?

Intressant. Hade inte hört något om Douglas Kurth, men om han låg över Fravor och Dietrch så förklarar det varför han såg vattnets krusning avta utan att se någon Tic-Tac, kanske. De flesta piloter som också var inblandade i denna incident brukar svara eller tillägga vissa svar som andra piloter sedan har förmedlat, som t.ex. Chad Underwood som aldrig såg objektet röra på sig oregelbundet, men pratar om det ibland som att han gjorde det på grund utav att dom andra sedan sagt det, kanske är det så att Douglas säger att kruset avtog för att Fravor och Dietrch påpekade det.

Jag förstår dock inte varför du tror att dom försöker mörklägga Douglas Kurth's närvaro, snarare är det väl så att dom inte var medvetna om det, eller kanske det är så att dom inte nämner det i efterhand med tanke på att han inte såg något. Kanske fokusen i själva berättandet i efterhand låg på just början på Fravor och Dietrch rutt då det var dom som såg något. När man läser artikeln om Douglas Kurth så får man intrycket att Kurth inte ansågs tillhöra "The superhornets" som var på väg till platsen, han var alltså nästan som en scout som skulle ligga på 10 000 i höjd i väntan, så kanske det är så att han inte nämns för han inte ansågs vara den som fick den riktiga uppgiften att ta en närmare titt som "The super hornets" var på väg att utföra? Dom nämnde även för honom att sedan "skippa" uppgiften och flyga tillbaka till Nimitz. Finns det någon eventuell information om vem som gav ordern till Douglas Kurth att flyga ut dit och kolla? Om det var så att det var Kevin Day som digererade honom att flyga ut dit så kan man tycka att det är lite märkligt att dom inte nämner honom.

Jag tror dock inte att det var Douglas Kurth som Fravor och Dietrch såg, det är en intressant teori, men de oregelbundna rörelserna ovanför vattnet, Tic-Tac formen på objektet. Ett stridsflygplan har en distinkt skepnad med sina vingar, exemplen i klippen ser inte ur som Tic-Tac. Men det är en intressant detalj om Douglas Kurth's närvaro som skulle behöva klarhet.

Det som jag tycker styrker det märkliga med den här incidenten är att Kevin Day digererade Fravor och Dietrch till ett av dessa objekt utan deras medvetande om vad dom skulle observera, och att Kevin Day enligt hans egna ord såg objektet gå från 28,000 fot ner till 50 fot under "Merge-Plot", detta stämmer överens med Fravor och Dietrch som inte såg någon Tic-Tac ovanför kruset på vattnet i första hand, det kan också förklara varför Douglas Kurth inte heller såg någonting. Men hade dessa objekt varit radar spöken eller väder fenomen så känns det ytterst märkligt att Kevin Day kunde dirigera ut dom till ett av objekten, och att Fravor och Dietrch sedan faktiskt såg något oförklarligt.

Det finns inte mycket data eller bevis att gå på när det gäller denna incidenten, som med så många andra incidenter, men det som gör denna berättelsen så intressant är just alla dessa sammanträffande som gör att det känns istället långsökt att försöka hitta någon annan förklaring än vad dom faktiskt såg. Även synvillor har sina problem då objektet sågs från fler än ett perspektiv.

Men man kan ju tycka att det är lite märkligt att detta sker just så nära kusten, och vid ett område som används som ett övningsområde för militären, och att Tic-Tac markerade deras CAP point. Kanske detta antyder på att det var något hemligt militärt?

Det är således bekräftat att Douglas Kurth fick jobb på BAASS efter NIMITZ-incidenten.

Sidan 81 ur rapporten:

BAASS Investigation Tic-Tac

The following preliminary report of unusual incidents in late 2004 is summarized by BAASS Lead Program Manager, Douglas Kurth who was Commanding Officer of VMFA-232 at the time of the incident. This incident is considered a sentinel case for BAASS in that it directly intersects national security issues; the case is being exhaustively and aggressively investigated by a team of BAASS collaborators, located on the East Coast. A full report on this investigation will be forthcoming.

Kurth skriver:

I was Commanding Officer of VMFA-232 – the Red Devils. VMFA-232 was an F/A-18C squadron and the only U.S. Marine Corps squadron assigned to Carrier Air Wing 11 (CVW-11). The other squadrons assigned to CVW-11 were VFA-14 (F/A-18E), VFA-41 (F/A-18F), VFA-94 (F/A-18C), VAQ-135 (EA-6B), VAW-117 (E-2C), HS-6 (H-60), and VRC-30 Det 3 (C-2A). CVW-11 was assigned to Carrier Strike Group 11 (CSG-11) – the USS Nimitz Strike Group. The ships that were part of CSG-11 were the USS Nimitz (CVN-68, nuclear aircraft carrier), USS Princeton (CG-59, Guided Missile Cruiser), USS Chafee (DDG-90, Destroyer), USS Higgins (DDG-76, Destroyer), and USS Louisville (SSN-724, Los Angeles-class nuclear submarine). I am not sure if all of the ships listed above participated in the at-sea training period in which the events below transpired. I know the Nimitz and Princeton participated, and believe the Chafee was also at sea.

During the last few months of 2004 and the first months of 2005, CVW-11 and the Nimitz Strike Group were preparing for an upcoming deployment to the Arabian Sea. The Strike Group trained in the military operating area off the coast of Southern California on multiple occasions. The events of interest took place in November and/or December 2004. According to my flight log book, and my memory of the type mission I was flying, I believe the events occurred on November 12, November 14, or December 8, 2004. CDR Fravor believes that the visual sighting occurred in December 2004.

I was flying a single-seat F/A-18C that launched from the USS Nimitz around 10:30 a.m. local time (daylight). I was flying without any wingmen as the purpose was to execute several checks of the aircraft after it had undergone some significant maintenance.

The day was a beautiful day for flying – no clouds and unlimited visibility. After about 30 minutes airborne, I received a radio call from my controller (no other aircraft operating on my frequency) asking me if I could investigate an unidentified airborne contact. [Note: It was not abnormal to receive requests or direction to investigate either unidentified airborne or surface contacts.] I informed them that I could after the completion of my current check.

The controller subsequently gave me a vector to the southeast for approximately 30-40 miles. [The reference point for the incident was approximately North 31 degrees 20 minutes, West 117 degrees 10 minutes with an error radius 30 nautical miles to the west or 10 nautical miles to the east. The reference point is about 70nm south of the U.S.-Mexico border, and 30nm off the Baja (Mexico) coast. I could see the coastline as I was being vectored southeast.] I proceeded Southeast at maximum conserve speed (250 Kts indicated or approximately 400 Kts ground speed) at medium altitude (15,000–25,000 ft).

The controller asked me if I had any ordnance onboard, and I replied that I did not. I thought this was very odd since no controller had ever asked me this during a situation of identifying an unknown contact in U.S. or international territory. The controller informed me that the unidentified contact was at slow speed and low altitude – near the surface.

About 25 miles away from the reference point, I gained radar contact of what I believe to be two F/A-18Fs that were approaching the reference point from the west at low altitude (500–5,000 ft). I did not observe any other traffic on radar. The controller informed me to remain above 10,000 ft as there was other fighter traffic at low altitude investigating the unidentified contact. As I approached approximately 15 nm from the reference point, descending through approximately 15,000 ft, I could see a rather large disturbance in the ocean surface. I remember the seas surprisingly calm that day with rolling swells, but no surface waves.

At first I did not associate the disturbance with the unidentified contact, but subsequently correlated the position of the ocean disturbance with the location of the two radar contacts that were maneuvering at the same location. When I was about 5–10 nm away from the reference point, my controller told me to “skip it” and return to my operating area. [“Skip it” is a communications brevity term to cease executing the assigned mission.] Since I was close, I elected to fly over the disturbance and see what was causing it.

The ocean disturbance appeared to be between 50–100 meters in diameter and close to round. It was the only area that any type of whitewater activity could be seen and it reminded me of images of something rapidly submerging from the surface. Like a submarine or a ship sinking. It also looked like a possible area of shoal water – where the swell was breaking over a barely submerged reef/island. I overflew the disturbance and then turned back to the northwest. As I was flying away, I could see the disturbance clearing and I could no longer identify the place where it occurred.

I did not see any object or vessel associated with the disturbance – above the surface, on the surface, or below the surface. I also never made visual contact with the other fighter aircraft that were vectored to the location.

TBC

Fortsättning...

...I returned to my operating area and loitered until recovering back aboard the USS Nimitz around noon local.

Note: I believe my controller was physically operating from the USS Nimitz, but may have been on any of the ships. I am not sure, but assume the controller saw the unidentified contact on his radar screen. I never spoke to any controller again regarding this event.

After landing, I removed my flight gear and reported to CVIC (the carrier intelligence center). [This was standard operating procedure even during routine training during carrier operations. Aircrew would provide intelligence personnel with reports of what they did during their mission to allow the intelligence personnel to train on taking pilot reports and subsequently writing reports.] As soon as I arrived in CVIC, my Intelligence Officer, 1stLt Cory Knox (assigned to CVIC while deployed at sea) asked me if I saw “the supersonic Tic Tac?” As I told him I didn’t know what he was talking about, he then took my post-mission report. I told him about the vector to the unidentified contact, the disturbance in the water, and other unrelated events during the flight. He then told me that two F/A-18Fs (two-seat Super Hornets) from VFA-41 observed the unidentified contact and reported it as a “supersonic Tic Tac-looking” object. He said that the other ships’ radars (USS Princeton and possibly others) had been observing an unidentified radar contact in approximately the same location at the same time for several days. But since we had been conducting afternoon and night flying the previous week, they did not have any aircraft to investigate the unidentified contact.

At that time CDR David Fravor, Commanding Officer of VFA-41 came into the area of CVIC that my Intel Officer and I were in. I asked him who was out there that saw the object. He told me that it was him leading a two-ship and he proceeded to tell me the following story. [The following details are supplemented by information provided by CDR Fravor during a phone conversation on January 6, 2009.] He said they were airborne conducting 2v2 intercepts when he received vectors for an unidentified airborne contact and was told to investigate.

Two-ship of F/A-18Fs proceeded toward the contact, CDR Fravor observed a disturbance in the water around the location they were being vectored to. As his flight descended to low altitude (5,000 ft to 500 ft.) and approached the disturbance, he visually observed an object unlike any airborne object he had seen before. He asked his Weapon Sensor Officer if he saw the object, and the response was yes. He detached his wingman (2nd F/A-18 in the formation) to a high cover/trail position. Subsequent radio communication confirmed that both aircrew in the wing aircraft visually observed the object also. The object was described as the shape of a “Tic Tac” breath mint candy. The object appeared to be about the same size as an AV-8B aircraft – 46 ft. in length – and proportional like a “Tic Tac.” The object did not appear to have any aerodynamic surfaces – it looked smooth. The object was observed at ranges from approximately one to three nautical miles. CDR Fravor’s two-ship did not gain a radar or sensor track on the object, nor did they attempt to once they saw the object visually. Additionally, CDR Fravor and the other aircrew were not recording their “Helmet Targeting System” when the object was observed.

As they first saw it, the object was either on the surface of the ocean or just above the surface. As he approached the object, he started a turn to orbit the area. He said as he got closer, the object appeared to hover just above the surface of the ocean. Then it climbed to co-altitude with them as they started their turn. It appeared to turn with them and maintain exactly opposite their “turn circle” for approximately 180 degrees of turn. Then the object accelerated, climbed and departed away from them at acceleration rates that he could not conceive. He stated the object was doing at least 600 knots shortly after it started climbing away from them. His impression was that the object was definitely reacting to their ownship maneuvers. Within seconds, all four aircrew lost visual contact with the object.

As CDR Fravor was reporting what they observed over the radio to their controller (their controller was an Airborne Intercept Controller in an airborne E-2C Hawkeye), the controller reported “You aren’t going to believe this… the object is at your CAP.” [The CAP was CDR Fravor’s flight’s navigation point to originate their intercept training.]

Apparently, the E-2C was able to track the object with their onboard surveillance radar.

At that time, another two-ship of F/A-18Fs was vectored to investigate the unidentified object since they were now geographically closer than CDR Fravor’s flight. LT Chad Underwood was one of the aircrew in the F/A-18Fs that were vectored toward the object. I am not aware whether LT Underwood’s flight was being controlled from a shipboard controller or an airborne controller. LT Underwood was able to gain a radar contact of the unidentified object with his APG-73 in search (range is unknown by me or CDR Fravor). According to CDR Fravor, once LT Underwood commanded the radar to single target track the object, the radar displayed jamming indications and was unable to maintain track. [Jamming indications observed are above the classification of this document.] However, LT Underwood was able to gain a track of the object with the Advanced Targeting Forward Looking Infrared (ATFLIR) sensor. As they flew toward the object, LT Underwood’s aircraft maintained ATFLIR track of the object for 2-3 minutes and recorded the ATFLIR display. Prior to visually observing the object, the ATFLIR broke track, and the object was not observed by any additional aircraft sensors.

According to CDR Fravor, the ships’ radars observed the object for several days prior to the visual observation, and continued to observe it randomly over the next few days. CDR Fravor states that he was never officially asked about the incident from anyone other than the people he reported it to on the USS Nimitz. Additionally, he was never told not to discuss the incident. CDR Bull, VFA-41 Executive Officer, believes that Commander, CSG-11, RDML Daly made phone calls to commands ashore regarding the incident. However, none of us know if there was an official report of the events released by CSG-11, USS Nimitz, or any other commands.

Word of the incident spread through the USS Nimitz rather quickly. When I entered CVIC later that afternoon, I saw several of the intel personnel wearing aluminum foil hats with antenna on the top. Everyone seemed to be enjoying the story. For the next several days the ship’s crew played stereotypical UFO movies on the closed circuit television. The incident was significant enough that I believe everyone in CVIC or in a leadership position in CVW-11 or CSG-11 will remember its occurrence for the rest of their lives.

Nej.

Det har det väl aldrig rått något tvivel om, Kurth har ju själv berättat det - men det jag reagerade kraftigt på i det nya materialet var följande:


Om det nu var en sån omvälvande händelse som påverkade alla inblandade för resten av livet - hur i hela friden kan det då komma sig att Kurth mindre än fem år efter händelsen inte minns om den skedde i november eller december - till och med trots att han påstår sig ha kvar sin loggbok! Även om han hade extremt taskigt minne så borde han väl i alla fall gjort någon form av anteckning om händelsen i loggboken??