Tråden om Letrozole, Arimidex och Aromasin

Ingen fara.
Det låter ändå som det du gjort dessa åtta månader är ganska lyckat. Att du mår bättre. Vi vet dock inte hur dina värden är (som du får reda på av blodprov).

0.5 mg arimidex varje dag är mycket. Dock inte onormalt mycket när du låg på 1000 mg test EW och även dbol (dbol aromatiserar också).

Tycker du behöver plugga på vad trt är. Testosterone replacement theory. Intrycket jag får är att det du ville åstadkomma från första början. För du tror/vet du hade låga testosteronvärden när var naturlig. 750-1000 mg testo per vecka är på tok för högt för kallas trt. Det vore väldigt intressant att se dina värden, åtta månader på denna dos.

Jag har som sagt inte superkoll på blast & cruise och trt. Det jag gissar på vore bäst för dig, vore att kanske kliva av helt och köra en pct med hcg+nolvadex. Avvänjning. Vila kroppen. Sedan eventuellt gå på en trt-dos, lägre än vad du är på nu. Då kanske du inte behöver äta AI (arimidex/letro/aromasin) heller, slipper du biverkningarna och stressen på kroppen av de tabletterna.
Eller om målet är bli stor och stark, köra en ny kur ("blast") när du vilat kroppen tillräckligt (återhämta kroppen från/efter pct'n). Efter en tid av allt (finns risk du kommer må bedrövligt här).

Jag har ingen aning hur din kropp reagerar, om du helt plötsligt, nu, sänker testoveckodosen till typ 150-200 mg per veckan (vanlig trt-dos?). Känns som du kan fallera, krascha totalt då. Gör du detta är jag rätt säker på du kunnat skippat äta arimidex.

Du får ta mina tips med en nypa salt. Jag har återigen dålig koll på trt och blast & cruise. Men(!) att fortsätta med 750 mg+ testo per vecka, som du varit på i åtta månader, sen addera letrozole (starka grejor) på det, låter inte som en höjdare för din kropp. Ligga på grammet testo per vecka i ett år och knapra högdos letrozole låter rentav farligt för hälsan?

Förövrigt tror jag en annan testosteron-ester vore bättre i din sits.

Tack återigen för ditt svar och ditt engagemang. Ska absolut ta dina åsikter och tankar vidare. Är ju inte ute efter att bli nån "Belgien blue" utan att få må bra. Men gärna ha hyfsad muskelmassa och vikt och att få bli av med slöheten och orkeslösheten och känslan av svaghet. Så måste hitta balansen i min dosering så jag kan köra på med så små biverkningar som möjligt. Väldigt tacksam för att få dina tips och synpunkter. Det där om trt är väl det jag är utefter.

Önskar dig en trevlig helg.

Du ska boka privat, på Werlabs eller Blodkollen.

Hej! Det är så att jag går på TRT behandling och Nu är det så att jag ibland ”glömt” att ta medicinen. Samt att jag tror medicinen inte går så bra ihop med en annan jag tar. I början av behandlingen så mådde jag extremt mycket bättre. När jag sedan började glömma doser samt ta olika tider under dygnet så tror jag effekten gått bort. Min sexuallust som jag fick har försvunnit och har just nu ett östradiol värde på 350-400 och mår inte så bra på det.
Har ganska lång tid till läkarbesök.. behöver tips på vad NI tycker jag ska ta och i vilka doser

Kan man använda en AI ihop med HMG eller HCG?

Lite sen på bollen men föreslår aromasin eller arimidex för att få ned östrogenet. När du glömde doser, kompensera du genom att ta dubbla doser på samma gång sen?

Klistrar in lite intressant läsning som passar denna tråden, där Aromasin och Arimidex ställs mot varandra.

Some points to remember before you begin reading.

It’s equally important for those of you unfamiliar with Cholesterol to please familiarize yourself with the following link that outlines the clinical definition and differences between HDL and LDL. I’m certain this topic will invariably come up during the discussion of Arimidex , as this appears to plays a key role in the decision whether to choose Arimidex or Aromasin .

Cholesterol

Two important points to also bear in mind: Both Arimidex and Aromasin were originally developed to fight cancer cells in woman, and most importantly and often mistaken, both behave differently in men and woman. And having said this, I know that some of you may bring up the “Lancet" study and its results that were reported a few years back. Please keep in mind that this study and results were conducted on, and from, WOMAN.

AROMASIN – Exemestane

Type-I Aromatase Inhibitor

Aromasin (Exemestane) is a Type-I aromatase inhibitor, or suicidal aromatase inhibitor. It’s called this because it lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, and permanently deactivating it. It averages 90% rate of estrogen suppression, which equals a reduction in estradiol levels of about 50%, as well as significantly raising testosterone .(up to 60%)

Aromasin not only increases testosterone and lowers estrogen, but it also increases levels of insulin -like growth Factor (IGF). And Aromasin is not too harsh on lipid panel (cholesterol), unlike some of the other AIs’ like Letrozole .(Femara) Aromasin reaches steady blood plasma levels of after a week of administration, and this is also when we see it begin its maximal effect on reducing circulating estrogen levels. It has a terminal half life of 9 hours in MEN, so taking it once per day will build up blood plasma levels to a very effective level.

Also, there have been some additional researches related to Aromasin in men in pharmacokinetics. The results of the research are the following:

24 hours after one 25mg dose, estrogen levels are reduced by 70-80%;

72 hours later estrogen levels are still 40% below the baseline;

120 hours after initial dose, estrogen levels return to baseline.

Additionally, the University of Florida conducted a study in healthy young men:

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males.

Spoiler

Nemours Children’s Clinic and Research Programs (N.M., J.L., A.R.), Jacksonville, Florida 32207; and University of Florida Health Sciences Center (D.P.) and Amersham Pharmacia Biotech (E.d.S., A.K., B.L.), Peapack, New Jersey 07977

To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14–26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg Aromasin daily, orally, for 10 days with a 14 day washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 hours after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed using a 25mg dose. Aromasin suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38%; 50 mg, 32%], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; for both).

The following observations were made:

Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment.
The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption.
Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 h.
The drug was well tolerated.
The terminal half-life was 8.9 hours in the male subjects.
In conclusion, Aromasin (Exemestane) is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study.

Spoiler

References and Supporting Data:

A predictive model for exemestane pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics incorporating the effect of food and formulation.Br J Clinical Pharmacology. 2005 Mar, 59(3):355-64.
Eur. J. Cancer. 2000, May;36(8):976-82
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 88, No. 12 5951-5956Copyright © 2003 by The Endocrine Society
Clin Cancer Res. 2003 Jan;9(1 Pt 2):468S-72S
Anticancer Res. 2003 Jul-Aug;23(4):3485
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Dec;88(12):5951-6.

ARIMIDEX - Anastrozole

Type-II Aromatase Inhibitor

Arimidex binds reversibly to the aromatase enzyme through competitive inhibition. This suppresses the conversion of androgens into estrogen. Circulating plasma estrogen can be reduced by nearly 85% in women using Arimidex. A common misconception is that aromatase inhibition is similar in men and women. However in trials when males were administered 1mg of Arimidex daily, circulating estrogen was only reduced by about 50%. Anastrozole is rapidly absorbed orally (time to reach maximum concentration, 1 hour) with a slow apparent clearance of 1.54 liters/h and a terminal half-life of 46.8 h.

But unlike Aromasin, once you stop taking Arimidex, the aromatase enzyme is free to convert androgens (testosterone) into estrogen again. This is referred to as estrogen rebound.

Estrogen has been measured as much as 7 times higher than normal in men on steroids . This is excessive and can potentially cause water retention, gynecomastia or benign prostatic hyperplasia. Therefore, in order to avoid these side effects, estrogen must be controlled. Reduction in breast area and breast volume have been observed in young men treated for 6 months with Arimidex (1 mg daily). These subjects had recent pre-existing gynecomastia (less than one year). However boys with longstanding gynecomastia (more than one year) were unresponsive to 6 months of Arimidex treatment, possibly due to development of dense breast fibrosis. Therefore using Arimidex to treat recent gynecomastia is supported by the data.

From all the data available, 0.25-.50mg of Arimidex every other day is a good starting point on moderate doses of testosterone. If testosterone doses are raised, then an increase may be needed to control estrogen. Since either high and low estrogen can cause side effects, such as low libido, only labs can determine the appropriate dose of Arimidex. Arimidex not only lowers circulating estrogen but it also increases LH and FSH concentrations in addition to increasing testosterone by about 58% in men. In one study elderly men with mild hypogonadism were administered 1mg daily of Arimidex for 12 weeks. This treatment normalized serum testosterone levels in those men without adversely affecting lipids, precursors of cardiovascular risk or insulin resistance. Please see excerpt from ATAC study below.

“Clinical Study - Cholesterol

During the ATAC 5 year trial (Arimidex, Tamoxifen , Alone, or in Combination) more patients receiving ARIMIDEX were reported to have an elevated serum cholesterol compared to patients receiving tamoxifen (9% versus 3.5%, respectively). A post-marketing trial also evaluated any potential effects of ARIMIDEX on lipid profile. In the primary analysis population for lipids (ARIMIDEX alone), there was no clinically significant change in LDL-C from baseline to 12 months and HDL-C from baseline to 12 months.

In secondary population for lipids (ARIMIDEX+risedronate), there also was no clinically significant change in LDL-C and HDL-C from baseline to 12 months. In both populations for lipids, there was no clinical significant difference in total cholesterol (TC) or serum triglycerides (TG) at 12 months compared with baseline.“

The difference in the elevated serums levels during the ATAC trial between patients receiving Arimidex and those receiving Tamoxifen were, (9% versus 3.5%, respectively) Only a 5.5% difference. Again, in this trial, treatment for 12 months with ARIMIDEX alone had a neutral effect on lipid profile. Combination treatment with ARIMIDEX and risedronate also had a neutral effect on lipid profile. Please see link for complete study: ARIMIDEX (ANASTROZOLE) TABLET [ASTRAZENECA PHARMACEUTICALS LP]

*So for average users of AAS who chooses to include Arimidex as their primary aromatase inhibitor, there is no cause for concern. However, monitoring your Cholesterol levels while using AAS, is recommended.

Other Clinical Studies

Effect of aromatase inhibition on lipids and inflammatory markers of cardiovascular disease in elderly men with low testosterone levels.

Spoiler

Dougherty RH, Rohrer JL, Hayden D, Rubin SD, Leder BZ.
Department of Medicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA 02114, USA.

Anastrozole is an oral aromatase inhibitor that normalizes serum testosterone levels and decreases oestradiol levels modestly in elderly men with mild hypogonadism. Thirty-seven elderly hypogonadal men were randomized to receive either anastrozole 1 mg daily, anastrozole 1 mg twice weekly, or daily placebo for 12 weeks in a double-blind fashion. Men aged 62-74 years with mild hypogonadism defined by testosterone levels less than 350 ng/dl. And although androgen replacement has been shown to have beneficial effects in hypogonadal men, there is concern that androgens may deleteriously affect cardiovascular risk in elderly men.

Treatment with Arimidex did not significantly affect fasting lipids, inflammatory markers adhesion molecules or insulin sensitivity. There was, however, a positive correlation between changes in serum triglycerides and changes in serum oestradiol levels. And while short-term administration of Arimidex is an effective method of normalizing serum testosterone levels in elderly men with mild hypogonadism, it does not appear to adversely affect lipid profiles, inflammatory markers of cardiovascular risk or insulin resistance.

Note: These studies were summarized and showed Arimidex decreased Estradiol by about 50% while raising Testosterone by about 58% in males.

Spoiler

References

Effect of aromatase inhibition on lipids and inflammatory markers of cardiovascular disease in elderly men with low testosterone levels.
Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.
Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of anastrozole in pubertal boys with recent-onset gynecomastia.
Influence of Neoadjuvant Anastrozole (Arimidex) on Intratumoral Estrogen Levels and Proliferation Markers in Patients with Locally Advanced Breast Cancer.

CONCLUSIONS:

To recap:

Aromasin takes a little longer to raise serum levels and has a shorter half life (10 hours), and is a suicide inhibitor. Recommend dose 12.5mg MIN - every day (ED)

Arimidex raises serum levels quicker yet has a longer half life (47 hours), and is a blocker type inhibitor. Recommended dose .25mg - every other day. (EOD)

After researching both compounds and reading the various studies available, i believe that Aromasin or Arimidex are both solid choices for an aromatase inhibitor used on cycle for the average AAS user. I equally believe that there is enough substantial data and evidence that suggests and supports the DAILY use of Aromasin as an aromastase inhibitor as a standard protocol. I no longer subscribe to the every other day (EOD) protocol when advising Aromasin as the primary AI.

And please remember that this article is NOT about which AI is better, rather it focuses on the fact that Arimidex is less invasive on lipids than previously thought by many of us here and elsewhere.

Please share your thoughts as I am interested in your opinions so we can continue to learn together.

Hej! Nej kompenserar inte med dubbla doser. Men har påbörjat nebido istället dock inte fått effekt än? Någon som vet hur länge det brukar ta? Sen arimidex.. vilka doser och hur ofta för att få bort ”känningar” eller att använda i förebyggande syfte. En halv tabl 1mg eod? Som test?

Fortsätter ni med Arimidex någon vecka efter testo kuren är slut, eller slutar ni samtidigt som kuren?

Finns det fördelar att fortsätta Arimidex en period efter, och hur lång tid?

Tänkte kolla hur ni med hög östrogen har kommit till väga?

Körde nämligen en kur för 2 månader sen och är nu av och trodde ite det skulle stimulera så mycket östrogen av testosteronen.
Har känt mig rätt seg och har haft grov minnesförlust samt brainfog på senaste så bestämde mig för att boka ett blodprov och fick fram resultatet att jag har en liten bit över gränsen till ”hög östrogen”!
Är även extremt bloated både i ansiktet o kroppen och jag har försökt gå ner i vikt efter ”pct cyclen” men har ej fått något resultat även fast jag har koll på energiutskottet samt kalori intagen, har tränat väldigt länge och har koll på kosten jag äter men ändå inte fått något resultat

Kan det bero på östrogen nivån eller är det någonting annat som bidrar t faktorn?
Isåfall är en AI den enda lösningen eller kommer östrogen att falla tbx till baseline? Ungefär hur lång tid isånnafall?

Är helt ren nu så ifall jag ska ta någon sorts AI så sker det utan någon baseline!

Uppskattar all hjälp o tips

Aromasin eller exemestan brukar alltid funka rätt snabbt om man ligger på optimala doser dock enbart Apoteks exemestan