2019-11-29, 09:31
  #1969
Medlem
arbetets avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Melange5738
Muslimerna har nästan utrotat alla kristna i regionen, det är bara ett par tusen kvar på Västbanken, i princip inga alls i Gaza. Det är överlägset många fler kristna araber i Israel än i Palestina (fler än 150k).
Muslimer? Nej, det är wahhabister och salafister som står för det. Du vet de i Saudi som Mohammed bin Salman. Netanyahus nya polare. Och förstås det Muslimska brödraskapet.

På andra ställen som i Teheran, Iran så finns det t.o.m. judar under beskydd av Islam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews

Här kan du läsa lite om "Bokens folk" och vilket skydd de åtnjuter i Koranen:
De, som tro, och de, som äro judar, sabierna och de kristna, så vitt de tro på Gud och den yttersta dagen och handla rättskaffens, över dem skall förvisso ingen fruktan råda, och de behöva ej varda bedrövade. Koranen 5:73.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokens_folk
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2019-11-29, 09:57
  #1970
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av arbetet
Du vet att det även bor kristna där, eller?. Kristna palestinier bl.a. Deras kyrka har förklarat den kristna sionismen vara heretiska irrläror:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#Disapproval_by_other_churches
Nja det är verkligen inte många kristna kvar i palestinaarabernas "område" (där inga judar får bo...)!
Pga att de blir trakasserade och hotade av islamister!

På grund av:
Citat:
"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends;
they are friends of each other;
and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
Koranen (5:51)

Kristna där måste låtsas hålla med islamisterna även om de inte gör det, annars blir de mördade.
Men givetvis finns det även ersättningsteologiska kristna där som inte läser Gamla Testamentet och som lärs av sina antisemitiska präster att tro att kristen tro helt ersätter Guds Löfte i Tanach.
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2019-11-29, 10:08
  #1971
Avstängd
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av anayla
Nja det är verkligen inte många kristna kvar i palestinaarabernas "område" (där inga judar får bo...)!
Pga att de blir trakasserade och hotade av islamister!
Ofta mer pga att det varit lättare för kristna palestinier att emigrera. Sen kan du fråga vad kristna palestinier i Betlehem tycker om den israeliska ockupationen.

Jag smålog f.ö. åt historien om den amerikanska kristna sionisten som flyttade till det Israel han älskade för att bosätta sig i den heliga staden Jerusalem. Tog någon månad innan han körts ut av ortodoxa judar.
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2019-11-29, 10:49
  #1972
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Xenonen
Ofta mer pga att det varit lättare för kristna palestinier att emigrera. Sen kan du fråga vad kristna palestinier i Betlehem tycker om den israeliska ockupationen.

Jag smålog f.ö. åt historien om den amerikanska kristna sionisten som flyttade till det Israel han älskade för att bosätta sig i den heliga staden Jerusalem. Tog någon månad innan han körts ut av ortodoxa judar.
Nej pga trakasserier.
Det är ingen ockupation.
Tror du inte jag vet att vi är hatade av ortodoxa judar?
Det är jobbigt men i regel behöver man inte frukta för sitt liv iallafall.
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2019-11-29, 11:26
  #1973
Avstängd
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av anayla
Det är ingen ockupation.
}
Och där var dags sluta ta dig på allvar.
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2019-11-29, 11:58
  #1974
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Xenonen
}
Och där var dags sluta ta dig på allvar.
Vad är en "ockupation"?
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2019-11-29, 12:35
  #1975
Avstängd
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av anayla
Vad är en "ockupation"?
Det kanske du borde slagit upp innan du förnekade att Västbanken är ockuperad.
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2019-11-29, 13:22
  #1976
Medlem
Melange5738s avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av arbetet
På andra ställen som i Teheran, Iran så finns det t.o.m. judar under beskydd av Islam:

Ja, 9000 stycken. Det finns fler araber i en typisk israelisk förort än det finns judar i hela Iran eller den sammanlagda arabvärlden.

Citat:
Här kan du läsa lite om "Bokens folk" och vilket skydd de åtnjuter i Koranen

Du tolkar den fel. Du ska läsa den sista delen först för den är den auktoritativa. Du vet, den som säger att du ska döda judarna.
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2019-11-29, 13:26
  #1977
Medlem
Melange5738s avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Xenonen
Att det skulle bott 350K judar i Iran låter också väldigt högt. Det är en siffra för dagens antal 'persiska judar', vilket inkluderar alla som lämnat landet under lång tid och deras befolkningsökning efter det.

Varför lämnade de landet om de blev så välbehandlade där?
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2019-11-29, 15:06
  #1978
Avstängd
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Melange5738
Varför lämnade de landet om de blev så välbehandlade där?
Till inte obetydlig del fagra löften från sionistiska rekryterare som lovade guld och gröna skogar i Israel, men alla som reste dit har i efterhand inte varit så nöjda. Du tycks i alla fall hålla med om att din siffra på 350K inte stämde.
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2019-11-29, 15:25
  #1979
Medlem
Melange5738s avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Xenonen
Till inte obetydlig del fagra löften från sionistiska rekryterare som lovade guld och gröna skogar i Israel, men alla som reste dit har i efterhand inte varit så nöjda. Du tycks i alla fall hålla med om att din siffra på 350K inte stämde.

Eller så kan man läsa i historieböckerna:

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Further deterioration in the treatment of Persian Jews occurred during the reign of the Safavids who proclaimed Shi'a Islam the state religion. Shi'ism assigns great importance to the issues of ritual purity ― tahara, and non-Muslims, including Jews, were deemed to be ritually unclean ― najis ― so that physical contact with them would require Shi'as to undertake ritual purification before doing regular prayers. Thus, Persian rulers, and to an even larger extent, the populace, sought to limit physical contact between Muslims and Jews. Jews were not allowed to attend public baths with Muslims or even to go outside in rain or snow, ostensibly because some impurity could be washed from them upon a Muslim.[32] Jews were often only permitted to pursue trades that were undesirable to the general Muslim population. They were expected to "undertake dirty work of every kind." Examples of such professions included dyeing (which contained strong unpleasant odors), scavenger work, cleaning excrement pits, singers, musicians, dancers and so on.[33] By 1905, many Jews of Isfahan were trading opium. This commerce which was very profitable, involved trade with India and China. The head of Isfahan Jewry was known to have contacts with house of David Sassoon.[34]

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The reign of Shah Abbas I (1588–1629) was initially benign. Jews prospered throughout Persia and were even encouraged to settle in Isfahan, which was made a new capital. However, toward the end of his rule, the treatment of Jews became harsher; upon advice from a Jewish convert and Shi'a clergy, the Shah forced Jews to wear a distinctive badge on clothing and headgear. In 1656, all Jews were expelled from Isfahan because of the common belief of their impurity and forced to convert to Islam. However, as it became known that the converts continued to practice Judaism in secret and because the treasury suffered from the loss of jizya collected from the Jews, they were allowed to revert to Judaism in 1661. However, they were still required to wear a distinctive patch upon their clothings.[30]

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The Jews became prominent in trade in Mashhad, and established commercial relationships with the British, who favored dealing with them. After the assassination of Nader in 1747, Jews turned to the British traders and Sunni Turkomens for political support. At the time Jews formed close ties with the British and provided banking support and intelligence for them.[36] The Zand dynasty had a more complex relationship with the Jewish community. They enjoyed the Shah's protection in Shiraz, but when the forces of Karim Khan took Basra in 1773, many Jews were killed, their properties looted and their women were raped. A document named "The Scroll of Persia" by Rabbi Ya'cov Elyashar compares the protected status of Jews in Ottoman Empire, with the weak condition of Jews in Iran. A Dutch traveller to Shiraz at the time of Karim Khan states:"Like most of the cities of the east, the Jews of Shiraz dwell in a separate quarter of their own, and they live, at least outwardly, in great poverty."[37] The British officer William Francklin who visited Shiraz after Karim Khan's death wrote :"The Jews of Shiraz have a quarter of the city allotted to themselves, for which they pay a considerable tax to the government, and are obliged to make frequent presents. These people are more odious to the Persians than any other faith, and every opportunity is taken to oppress and extort money from them, the very boys on the street are accustomed to beat and insult them, of which treatment they dare not complain"[37] The Zand dynasty came to an end when Lotf Ali Khan Zand was murdered by the Aqa Muhammad Khan Qajar.

An instrumental figure in ascension of Aqa Muhammad Khan Qajar to the throne and defeat of Lotf Ali Khan was Hajj Ebrahim Khan Kalantar, whom Naser al-Din Shah Qajar always referred to as Jewish.[38] However Aqa Muhammad Khan's successor, Fath-Ali Shah Qajar did not trust Haji Ebrahim and had him executed. Later Hajj Ebrahim's daughter married the new prime minister and formed the influential Qavam family which remained influential in Iran for at least two centuries.[38] Despite the early cooperation between Jews and Qajars, the Jews eventually suffered under their leadership. The Qajars were also Shia Muslims and many Shia anti-Jewish laws were reinstated. Rabbi David Hillel who visited Persia in 1827 wrote of a forced conversion shortly before his trip. Stern who was a Jewish-Christian missionary wrote that all merchants in Vakil Bazaar are ethnic Jews who in order to save themselves from death rebuke the faith of their fathers constantly.[38]

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In the middle of the 19th century, J. J. Benjamin wrote about the life of Persian Jews: "…they are obliged to live in a separate part of town…; for they are considered as unclean creatures… Under the pretext of their being unclean, they are treated with the greatest severity and should they enter a street, inhabited by Mussulmans, they are pelted by the boys and mobs with stones and dirt… For the same reason, they are prohibited to go out when it rains; for it is said the rain would wash dirt off them, which would sully the feet of the Mussulmans… If a Jew is recognized as such in the streets, he is subjected to the greatest insults. The passers-by spit in his face, and sometimes beat him… unmercifully… If a Jew enters a shop for anything, he is forbidden to inspect the goods… Should his hand incautiously touch the goods, he must take them at any price the seller chooses to ask for them... Sometimes the Persians intrude into the dwellings of the Jews and take possession of whatever please them. Should the owner make the least opposition in defense of his property, he incurs the danger of atoning for it with his life... If... a Jew shows himself in the street during the three days of the Katel (Muharram)…, he is sure to be murdered."[39]

Citat:
in 1868 British charge d'affairs in Iran Sir William Taylour Thomson[40] wrote Iranian Jews are "mostly very poor and excepting in Tehran and some major cities, are much prosecuted and oppressed by the Mahometans (muslims)."[41] After a trip to Europe in 1873 Naser al-Din Shah Qajar improved his relationship towards the Jewish community and relaxed certain restrictions. However this relaxation was not perceived positively by the masses and the Shia clergy. Writing in 1875 a letter from Tehran Jewish community indicates although the Shah is a "righteous king and a lover of all the seed of the Jews as the apple of his eye" and he and his deputy are Jews' Lovers the gentile masses are accustomed to mistreating the Jews.[42] In 1876 in accordance to pressure from Moses Montefiore the Iranian government improved the living conditions of the Jews and reduced their taxes. In 1881 Sir William Taylour Thomson finally succeeded to force the Shah to abolish the Jizya tax for the Persian Jewry[43] Many times Iranian central government wished to help the Jews but did not have enough influence in places where local rulers and Shia clergy were powerful. In one incident of this type in Hamedan in 1875, an argument occurred between a Jewish goldsmith and a customer, eventually a crowd gathered and the goldsmith was accused of blaspheming Islam, a crime worthy of capital punishment in Islamic legal law. People started beating the Jew. He fled to a Mujtahid's (Islamic Scholar) house who sought to send him to the government authorities. However people were so angry, that they broke into the house and killed him and burned his body. Sir William Taylour Thomson contacted Iranian authorities about this matter and a levy tax was imposed on all Muslim population of the city. This angered the population even more and all of them gathered to stone the Jew, the governor and Shah's agents. Jewish board of deputees sent gratitude to William Taylour Thomson for intervening on behalf of the Jews.[44]
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2019-11-29, 15:29
  #1980
Medlem
Melange5738s avatar
Forts om "mönsterlandet" Iran som enligt Xenonen och övriga antisemiter i tråden omvärlden verkar ska modellera sin förhållning till judar:

Citat:
The following street song which was common in Tehran in the 19th century demonstrates the negative view of average Persian Muslim towards the Persian Jews:

The Jew (Originally Juhud (Persian:جهود), a negative term meaning Jew) who is without honor, Is a nuisance from head to toe, He is a lie from toe to head, May scum cover his father's grave, He is an enemy of the religion of Islam, Don't call him a Jew, he is an infidel, His scarf, his gown and his shirt, His property, his children and his wife, Don't say they are bad, for they belong to you, Take them and screw them, they are lawful to you.[45]

Iranian Jews actively took part in the Persian Constitutional Revolution. Seen here is a Jewish gathering celebrating the second anniversary of the Constitutional Revolution in Tehran.

Lord Curzon described the regional differences in the situation of the Persian Jews in the 19th century: "In Isfahan, where they are said to be 3,700 and where they occupy a relatively better status than elsewhere in Persia, they are not permitted to wear kolah or Persian headdress, to have shops in the bazaar, to build the walls of their houses as high as a Moslem neighbour's, or to ride in the street. In Teheran and Kashan they are also to be found in large numbers and enjoying a fair position. In Shiraz they are very badly off. In Bushire they are prosperous and free from persecution."[46] One European traveler in 1880 wrote : "Hatred [harboured by the gentiles of Kermanshah] toward the Jews is not as overdone as in central Persia".[47] In 1860 Rabbi Y. Fischel said about the Jews of Isfahan as beaten "from all sides by the gentiles."[48]

Another European traveler reported a degrading ritual to which Jews were subjected for public amusement:

At every public festival — even at the royal salaam [salute], before the King's face — the Jews are collected, and a number of them are flung into the hauz or tank, that King and mob may be amused by seeing them crawl out half-drowned and covered with mud. The same kindly ceremony is witnessed whenever a provincial governor holds high festival: there are fireworks and Jews.[49]

In other times, the attacks on the Jews were related to their association with the foreigners. An event of this sort occurred in 1836, when Elyas a Jewish banker for the British Residency in Bushehr "was attacked for doing its business in the bazaar." Anti-Jewish acts were sometimes linked to resentment of European powers.[50] In this time Iranian Jews who were aware of the growing influence of European Jews in global affairs turned to them for assistance. In 1840 the Jewish community of Hamedan sent an envoy, Nissim Bar Selomah, to meet Western Jewry. He went to England and met with Moses Montefiore, who provided "certificates" against the accusations of the Jews.[51]

From 1860 many attempts were made by the Persian Jewish community to secure assistance from European Jews against Muslims. These requests were full of descriptions of poverty and persecution faced by Jews in Persia. The following is one example of such requests :"Allow us to present our supplications to you. You would not want your brethren, your own flesh and blood, to perish in frightful penury, to be victims of renewed persecutions which awaits them with each passing day. We are subject to the scorn of our enemies (Muslims) who view us as defenseless and do with us whatever they like. We live every day, hour and moment of our lives in constant dread of some new tragedy which they might bring upon us. our lives, property, honor, everything that is dear to us is at the mercy of their anger and hostility, a situation which is worse than slavery. Apostate Jews have the right to inherit their parents entire estate, the widow and orphans who did not abandon their faith must hand over their property to the apostate. A Muslim who kills a Jew will not go to a trial, even if there were witnesses to the crime, the Muslim will pay at most a fine for his deed. We are groaning under the burden of disgraceful taxes.[52]

In the 19th century, there were many instances of forced conversions and massacres, usually inspired by the Shi'a clergy. A representative of the Alliance Israélite Universelle, a Jewish humanitarian and educational organization, wrote from Tehran in 1894: "…every time that a priest wishes to emerge from obscurity and win a reputation for piety, he preaches war against the Jews".[53] In 1830, the Jews of Tabriz were massacred; the same year saw a forcible conversion of the Jews of Shiraz. In 1839, the Allahdad occurred, many Jews were massacred in Mashhad and survivors were forcibly converted. However, European travellers later reported that the Jews of Tabriz and Shiraz continued to practice Judaism in secret despite a fear of further persecutions. In 1860 Jews of Hamedan were accused of mocking the Ta'zieh ceremonies for Imam Husain, several of them were fined and some had their ears and noses cut off as punishment.[54] Jews of Barforush were forcibly converted in 1866; when they were allowed to revert to Judaism thanks to an intervention by the French and British ambassadors, a mob killed 18 Jews of Barforush, burning two of them alive.[55][56] In 1910, the Jews of Shiraz were accused of ritually murdering a Muslim girl. Muslim dwellers of the city plundered the whole Jewish quarter, the first to start looting were the soldiers sent by the local governor to defend the Jews against the enraged mob. Twelve Jews, who tried to defend their property, were killed, and many others were injured.[57] Representatives of the Alliance Israélite Universelle recorded other numerous instances of persecution and debasement of Persian Jews.[58] In many of these cases envoys from foreign governments such as British, French and Ottoman intervened on behalf of the Jews to avoid more serious repercussions.[59] Three international Jewish organizations of Alliance Israélite Universelle, Anglo-Jewish Association and Board of Deputies of British Jews and two key people Adolphe Crémieux and Moses Montefiore were instrumental in securing equal rights for the Iranian Jews and protecting Jews in anti-semitic incidents.

Driven by persecutions, thousands of Persian Jews emigrated to Palestine in the late 19th and early 20th century.[60] Many Jews who decided to stay in Iran moved to Tehran to be close to the Shah and enjoy his protection.

Förstår precis varför Xenonen klagar över att judarna stack därifrån, otacksamma jävlar.
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