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Ursprungligen postat av
rayjoh
Listan med vittnesmålen har varit uppe i den här tråden många gånger innan du dök upp här. Alla dom gångerna har truthers ignorerat listan.
Ok, då jag ska bemöta den just därför.
Listan på vittnen ska alltså ge stöd NIST:s simulerade modell av WTC-brändernas intensitet, utbredning och uthållighet innan de tre byggnaderna kollapsade.
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"Building #7 was still actively burning and at that time we were advised by a NYFD Chief that building #7 was burning out of control and imminent collapse was probable. –PAPD P.O. Edward McQuade"
1. Det är ingen som förnekar att vattnet till WTC 7 var avskuret och att byggnaden därför brann okontrollerat. Frågan är var och hur mycket det brann, främst timmen innan kollapsen.
2. Att byggnaden riskerade att kollapsa eller skulle fås att kollapsa var uppenbarligen "allmänt känt" långt innan den ägde rum. I det här fallet hearsay.
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...Just when you thought it was over, you're walking by this building and you're hearing this building creak and fully involved in flames. It's like, is it coming down next? Sure enough, about a half an hour later it came down. –FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn
Ett direkt vittne, ja. Men stämmer det med NIST:s egna uppgifter?
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nist.gov
http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtc7.cfm
Debris from the collapse of WTC 1, which was 370 feet to the south, ignited fires on at least 10 floors in the building at its south and west faces. However, only the fires on some of the lower floors—7 through 9 and 11 through 13—burned out of control.
1. Att byggnaden var "fully in flames" stämmer inte med NIST:s modell över brandförloppet som säger 10 våningar eller mer i dess sydvästra del, men att endast 7 våningar brann utan kontroll. Byggnaden bestod av 47 våningar.
2. "Hearing this building creak" och "coming down next?", har inget med brändernas intensitet, omfattning eller utbredning att göra.
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The concern there again, it was later in the afternoon, 2, 2:30, like I said. The fear then was Seven. Seven was free burning. Search had been made of 7 already from what they said so they had us back up to that point where we were waiting for 7 to come down to operate from the north back down. –Captain Robert Sohmer
Återigen, hearsay, och återigen ingen här som påstår att inte branden var okontrollerad.
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Then we had to move because the Duane Reade, they said, wasn't safe because building 7 was really roaring.–FDNY Chief Medical Officer Kerry Kelly.
Hearsay.
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The time was approximately 11a.m. Both of the WTC towers were collapsed and the streets were covered with debris. Building #7 was still standing but burning. ...We spoke to with a FDNY Chief who has his men holed up in the US Post Office building. He informed us that the fires in building 7 were uncontrollable and that its collapse was imminent. There were no fires inside the loading dock (of 7) at this time but we could hear explosions deep inside. –PAPD P.O. William Connors
1. Redan kl 11:00 var det alltså allmänt känt inom brandförsvaret att WTC 7 stod inför en "imminent collapse. Byggnaden föll först 6 timmar och 20 minuter senare, 17:20, så de bränder som eventuellt härjade så långt innan kan inte appliceras på timmen innan kollapsen.
2. Vittnet rapporterar endast hearsay.
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Firefighter TJ Mundy: "The other building, #7, was fully involved, and he was worried about the next collapse."
"He"? Hearsay?
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At that time, other firefighters started showing up, Deputy Battalion Chief Paul Ferran of the 41 Battalion, and James Savastano of the First Division assigned to the Second Battalion showed up and we attempted to search and extinguish, at the time which was small pockets of fire in 7 World Trade Center. We were unaware of the damage in the front of 7, because we were entering from the northeast entrance. We weren't aware of the magnitude of the damage in the front of the building. – FDNY Captain Anthony Varriale
1. "Small pockets", är ju inte direkt stöd för vad som påstås vara NIST:s överdrivna simuleringar. Tvärtom.
2. "Damage of the building", säger inget om brändernas art, eftersom skadorna från rasen av WTC 1 - 2 fanns på den sydöstra sidan.
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Chief Nigro directed me to continue monitoring conditions at the site. Specifically to monitor number 7 World Trade Center. We were very concerned with the collapse potential there, and to do whatever I could do to ensure site safety in that no additional people became injured. –FDNY Deputy Chief Harold Meyers
Ingenting om brändernas intensitet, utbredning eller uthållighet här heller.
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It could have been an hour, hour and a half we were doing that before we were ordered to move away from that part of Tower No. 1 because there was an imminent danger of collapse of World Trade Center No. 5 and 7. –Firefighter Vandon Williams
Det har det uppenbarligen varit i mer än 6 timmar och fortfarande inget vittnesmål om brändernas art.
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All later attempts to return to the WTC were stopped by the pending, and eventual collapse of Building 7 and the uncontrolled fires. –PAPD P.O. Lawrence Guarneri
1. Återigen, "imminent" i mer än sex timmar säger inget om brändernas art.
2. Ingen ifrågasätter att bränderna var "okontrollerade".
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We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing. So for the next five or six hours we kept firefighters from working anywhere near that building, which included the whole north side of the World Trade Center complex. – Chief Frank Fellini
Återigen, hearsay och inte heller här något som motsäger att NIST:s simuleringar var överdrivna.
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They backed me off the rig because Seven was in dead jeopardy, so they backed everybody off and moved us to the rear end of Vesey Street. We just stood there for a half hour, 40 minutes, because Seven was in imminent collapse and finally did come down. – Firefighter Thomas Smith
Inget om bränderna här heller ...
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Ursprungligen postat av
TODCDFWB
Så här säger brandchefen Daniel Nigro, personen som tog beslutet om att dra sig tillbaka från WTC7:
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"The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we wouldnít lose any more people."
"Heavy fire on many floors ... " Hur "heavy". Hur många "floors". När utspelas det här? Mer än 6 timmar innan kollapsen?
Om branden runt pelare-79 på våning 12 - 14 brunnit ut timmen innan kollapsen, kan den inte ha initierat den.
Vad jag kan se så är det endast ett! ögonvittne som uttalar sig om brändernas art ("fully in flames") på ett sätt som talar emot kritikernas påstående om att NIST:s simuleringar är överdrivna. Problemet med det vittnesmålet är att det inte stämmer med NIST:s fynd om att endast ca 10 - 7 våningar av 47 stycken någon gång under dagen hade brandhärdar.
"Vittnena" i listan ger alltså varken stöd åt NIST:s datorsimuleringar av bränderna eller att dessa är överdrivna.
Sorry.
