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Ursprungligen postat av
glimmande
Intressant
Det visste jag faktiskt inte. I mitt stilla sinne så hade jag mer eller mindre tagit förgivet att det var västukrainare som strök med som flugor. Så går det om man inte har den historiska basen!
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Ursprungligen postat av
RexNemorensis
Det är mycket intressant! Det visar att i stort sett alla påståenden om "Ukraina" är lögner och att de västukrainska sektkatolikena mest bara är sinnessjuka jävla dårar och monster.
Det finns inga som helst historiska eller "moraliska" skäl till att dårarna från Galizien ska styra över hela Ukraina och "Ukraina" är i sig till stor del ett artificiellt hitte på-land och "ukrainare" verkar delvis vara ett hitte på-folk. När det dessutom visar sig att sektkatolikerna i väst inte var de som massmördades mest av bolsjevikerna så framstår det hela som ännu sjukare. Däremot så ägnade sektkatolikerna sig åt att massmörda bl.a. många tiotusentals civila polska män, kvinnor och barn...
Enligt den ukrainske chauvinisten Pavlo Khomenko så var Holodomor riktat mot etniska ukrainare i Östukraina så att man kunde flytta dit massor av ryssar för att ersätta ukrainarna (han erkänner dock att det inte var ryssar som låg bakom folkmordet):
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2014/06/the-ukrainian-conflict-a-ukrainian-nationalist-view-part-1/
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Ursprungligen postat av Pavlo Khomenko
The politically incorrect reality is that the division of modern Ukraine is largely a result of the Holodomor 1932–1933 famine. This genocide specifically targeted Ukrainians and Ukrainian cultural presence in the part of Ukraine that was then part of the Soviet Union: Eastern Ukraine, as well as areas where mostly Ukrainians lived that are now part of Russia, like the Kuban region. There is no division between Ukrainians. There is a division between Ukrainians and the descendants of those whom the Soviet government moved to Eastern Ukraine to replace the murdered Ukrainians. We are all well aware that the famine itself was not committed by Russians. Yet, the population of the region was nevertheless largely changed from Ukrainians to Russians.
Yes, there are other differences: one side of Ukraine was historically more influenced by Poland, and the other Russia; on one side, one finds more Catholicism than the other. But this is very minor and these differences never stopped Ukrainians in history from Eastern and Western Ukraine as always viewing each other as the same people. Furthermore, such differences exist in all countries. The division of Ukraine today is a direct result of the Holodomor and the mass political repression against the Ukrainian identity that followed, changing Eastern Ukraine from a center of Ukrainian nationalism to an exhausted region without an identity.
[...]
Even today, and despite all of this history, there hardly exists a divide between Eastern and Western Ukraine. Eastern Ukraine today largely speaks Russian. This is a result of the Holodomor and the staunch Russification policies of the USSR that followed. Yet, the overwhelming majority of eastern Ukraine view their native language as Ukrainian. Everyone in eastern Ukraine speaks Ukrainian fluently, and it is only a generation before the majority will speak Ukrainian in day-to-day life. There is currently a rebirth and reawakening of Ukrainian identity well underway in eastern Ukraine, as the vast majority of the population take back what is rightfully theirs. This will be and is undoubtedly something that the aggressive minority of the population — largely the ancestors of those brought to Ukraine after the Holodomor — dislikes.
Han glömde dock att nämna den biten med att större delen av det område som idag utgör Östukraina erövrades av ryssarna från diverse turkfolk. Landet var till största delen helt öde, och för att bygga upp detta land valde man att bjuda in massor av andra europeiska folk, däribland ukrainare:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya
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When this territory was conquered by the Russian Empire from the Ottomans in the 18th century after the Russo-Turkish War, they established the Novorossiysk Governorate there, which was administered from Kremenchuk. Historically, the area was known as the Wild Fields or Devastated Fields, as several centuries of wars had driven off agriculture and urban settlement. It covers roughly the modern territories of southern Ukraine and is said by some to extend into Russia.
The western part of it (between the Dniester and the Dnieper rivers) was known as Dykra in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and subsequently the province of Yedisan, an autonomous region of the Ottoman Empire, and was previously inhabited mostly by ethnic Nogai Tatars who had moved into the area during the Golden Horde conquest. The eastern part of this territory was an integral part of the Zaporozhian Sich, which had been settled and ruled by the Ruthenian/Ukrainian Cossacks since the 15th century.
The Russian Empire gradually gained control over the area by peace treaties with Cossack Hetmanate and the Ottoman Empire at the conclusion of the Russo-Turkish Wars of 1735–39, 1768–74, 1787–92 and 1806–12. It also forcefully liquidated the Free lands of Zaporizhian Sich, thus eliminating the independent rule of the area by ethnic Ukrainian Cossacks, as they became inconvenient for Russian colonization. The colonization of the land at the end of 18th century was led by Prince Grigori Potemkin who was granted the powers of an absolute ruler over the area by Catherine the Great. The lands were generously given to the Russian dvoryanstvo (nobility), and the enserfed peasantry mostly from Ukraine and fewer from Russia were transferred to cultivate what was a sparsely populated steppe. Catherine the Great also invited European settlers to these newly conquered lands: Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks, Albanians, Germans, Poles, Italians, and others. In the former New Russia, the Russian language is common in cities and some areas outside, while Ukrainian is more prevalent generally in rural areas, smaller towns, and villages. With its history, the ethnic composition varies, including communities of Greeks, Armenians, Tatars, and many others. This is also reflected in the founding of its cities. For example, Zaporizhzhya is a former Cossack fort; Odessa was founded on the site of a Romanian village by a Spanish general in Russian service, Jose de Ribas and was ruled by a French mayor, Richelieu; and Donets'k, founded in 1869, was originally named Yuzovka (Yuzivka) in honor of John Hughes, the Welsh industrialist who developed the coal region of the Donbass.
Signaturen
Askold sågar Pavlo Khomenkos artikel ganska rejält i kommentarsfältet:
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Ursprungligen postat av Askold
Well, this article is potpourri of new “Ukranian ideology” or, better be said “new Ukranian mythology” formed in Galichina (few most western parts of modern “ukranian” territory, that was formerly parts of Austro-Hungarian and Polish states and retain anti-Russian ideological overtones of that states). Unfortunathely, author dont mention such a wide spreaded among “new ukranian nationalists ” view that Jesus Christ along with Julius Ceasar and virtually everybody else in mankind history were in fact “Ukranians” and latine language as well as sanscrit are just derivative of “ukranian langage”. It might sounds crazy, but in fact, these are ideas of today’s “ukranian nationalists”! And these are just small extention of idea of Trilol’eand Kurgan cultures as “ukranian”. The word “ukraine” means “on tht border” in Russian langage and this part of Russia, that called ,”Ukraine” should be called “Little Russia” or “Malorossia”. It occupies approx. 1/3 central part of “modern ukraine” and consists of regions of Vinnitza, Zhitomir, Khmelnitzkiy, Kiev, Chernigov, Cherkassy, Sumy, Poltava (see reduced map here
http://alternatiwa.org.ru/_malorussia/map01.gif) . Other big part of the modern “ukranian” territory is actually 8 or 9 regions of the New Russia or “NovoRossia” that was reunited to Russian state in XVIII century, when these lands didnt know any “ukranian” population on them and consists of regions of Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Donetzk, Lugansk, Kherson, Zaporozh’e, Kirovograd, Odessa, Nikolaev. As for Kievan Rus-this was initial Russian state, until capital, due to mongol invasion was moved to the North, first to Vladimir (this period is kniwn as Voadimir Rus) and later on to Moscow, then to Sankt Petersburg and after 1917 again to Moscow.
^^ Västukrainare (eller snarare galizier) verkar vara Nordeuropas motsvarighet till albaner...
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Ursprungligen postat av
Kurganski
Nätverket stoppa Mikael Skillt måste vara den bästa signaturen jag har skådat
