2020-07-05, 03:26
  #343561
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Revej
Well, THE studie shows there are three Times more infected than we're able to test.

This means that approximately 10-15% of Swedens population have been infected and this is making THE virus lose its grip.

You're right that it is yet to be proven of infected can be infected again within a few months, Or even a year.

But Common Sense say that should be The case. There Is Always a possibility that The immunity Will show to be a bad thing to have for a second infection.

But that it just would disappear, as you propose, that seems so unlikely that I don't think it is anything to go around AND worry about.

No, it shows that antibody levels have dropped below measurable amounts within presumed-asymptomatic patients after 4 months. But the scientific world already knew this. There isn’t a large enough contingency of asymptomatic patients vs symptomatic patients for there to even be 2-3x the current antibody level readings.

I haven’t stated anything to do with re-infection. I said that looking for this T-cell immunity within a population will provide misleading results, because it will bring up people with prior HCoV cross-reactive T-cells. Which could entirely be what they measured here, but I imagine the family members were infected. The cross-reactive T-cells don’t mean anything, really. They don’t protect against infection, they aren’t neutralizing, and they don’t affect the severity of a possible infection.

So what this study has done is said “look, these people now have no antibodies after a period of time”. What it has not done is been able to provide results stating “look, we have 3x more immune than previously thought”. Because we do not, and the evidence is not there for it. This is why subsequent studies referencing this study have brought these assumptions into question while praising the immunological value of the rest of the study.
Citera
2020-07-05, 03:28
  #343562
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av HG
Du verkar inte förstå att lockdown är till för att spara människoliv i väntan på ett vaccin.
Det hade kanske varit en rimlig åtgärd om man hade ett säkert datum på när detta vaccin kommer, men just nu finns det ingen som vet, det kan likabra dröja åratal. Kommer det ett vaccin i år finns det ju även risken att vi får en ny skandal likt den med svininfluensan, jag hoppas att man om ett vaccin kommer koncentrerar sig på att ge det till de i riskgrupperna och inte annars unga friska människor som löper obefintlig risk att insjukna i covid.
Citera
2020-07-05, 03:29
  #343563
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Revej
Well, that Night depend on where un Sweden you är. I would say september is THE months of transition but i Aldo live in Southern Sweden.

Skitsamma, when THE fall comes there might be an increase, but hopefully not something like a "second wave".

It might depend on that. I could be off by a month. But I’m fairly sure the R0 will rise towards the end of summer before continuing to rise in autumn and peaking in the winter. I don’t believe the measures we have undertaken or the surge capacity we have left after dismantling what we had is enough to stem either the rise in infections or hospitalizations. I believe allowing the virus to circulate relatively freely during summer will only lead to a quicker exponential gain in comparison to other countries that have actively suppressed the infection during this summer. I also hope proper action can be taken to stop the infection in this case, because the shift between spring and summer saved us this time around — and that won’t be coming next time.
Citera
2020-07-05, 03:41
  #343564
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av OUFCompulsive
It might depend on that. I could be off by a month. But I’m fairly sure the R0 will rise towards the end of summer before continuing to rise in autumn and peaking in the winter. I don’t believe the measures we have undertaken or the surge capacity we have left after dismantling what we had is enough to stem either the rise in infections or hospitalizations. I believe allowing the virus to circulate relatively freely during summer will only lead to a quicker exponential gain in comparison to other countries that have actively suppressed the infection during this summer. I also hope proper action can be taken to stop the infection in this case, because the shift between spring and summer saved us this time around — and that won’t be coming next time.

I believe the opposite, I think Sweden will do alot better than every country at this side of the world, especially the scandinavian countries. It sounds like you underestimate what immunity is about, it's not about getting herd-immunity, it's about to break chains. Every other country will have a big problem, we already had our problem here. This is how we solved it.
Citera
2020-07-05, 04:11
  #343565
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av hektorstyle
I believe the opposite, I think Sweden will do alot better than every country at this side of the world, especially the scandinavian countries. It sounds like you underestimate what immunity is about, it's not about getting herd-immunity, it's about to break chains. Every other country will have a big problem, we already had our problem here. This is how we solved it.

But new chains of transmission will always exist. There will always be new superspreading events. There isn’t any evidence that Sweden has achieved a level of immunity to even slow exponential growth from occurring. On the contrary, all released antibody studies and last-known PCR rates indicate less than 10% of the country has been infected. You would theoretically need more than double the current immunity rate in Sweden to begin breaking these chains of transmission and slowing exponential growth. I don’t think the other Scandinavian countries will have issues on the scale of Sweden because I believe they will be quicker to introduce measures to stop infection from growing exponentially. I don’t believe Sweden will.
Citera
2020-07-05, 04:13
  #343566
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av OUFCompulsive
But new chains of transmission will always exist. There will always be new superspreading events. There isn’t any evidence that Sweden has achieved a level of immunity to even slow exponential growth from occurring. On the contrary, all released antibody studies and last-known PCR rates indicate less than 10% of the country has been infected. You would theoretically need more than double the current immunity rate in Sweden to begin breaking these chains of transmission and slowing exponential growth. I don’t think the other Scandinavian countries will have issues on the scale of Sweden because I believe they will be quicker to introduce measures to stop infection from growing exponentially. I don’t believe Sweden will.

Please link to that studies.
Citera
2020-07-05, 04:41
  #343567
Medlem
RobbyRob44s avatar
Trump har rätt. Hydroxyklorokin är förebyggande mot det som i folkmun kallas Corona-virus.

Det var anledningen till att läkemedelsindustrin (Big Pharma) såg till att stoppa leveranserna av det billiga Hydroxyklorokin så att folk som blev sjuka av "Corona" behövde köpa dyrt Remdesivir i stället, och dyra ventilatorer som pressar in så mycket syre (luft) i dom sjuka att deras lungmembran vidgas mer och mer till att dom kollapsar så att patienten dör.

När någon dör av "Corona/Covid" ger det en högre ersättning än ett vanligt dödsfall.

Spårar man ägaren till Remdesivir och deras ägare hamnar man hos den förre kinesiske presidentens son.

För den som vill hålla sig frisk och undvika att bli sjuk på kort och lång sikt gäller att hålla sitt immunförsvar i bästa möjliga skick.

Det innebär att inte intaga ett enda "vaccin"= giftinjection (vad än Big Pharma försöker skrämma dig med för att ta giftet in i din kropp) som du aldrig kan bli av med sen, endast äta ekologiskt odlad mat och hålla dig till träning och motion. Undvik, socker och tillsatser i mat.

Vitamin-C antioxidanten, (01-10 gram fördelat jämnt över din dag. Mängd beronde på ditt behov), Zink och D-vitamin är också kosttillskott som rekommenderas för att maximera ditt immunförsvar mot "Corona" och alla andra angrepp på din kropp.

Begreppet-Corona-virus inbegriper egentligen en hel familj av virus som går under namnet Corona.

Dom som är sjuka av Corona-viruset har antingen fått det genom injicerade influensa-vacciner eller att utsätta sig för människor som blivit sjuka och sen hostar ut "corona-virus".

Corona-viruset är en dropp-smitta.

Det finns mer information att få av dessa läkare i ämnet om Corona-viruset, Big Pharma och vacciners inverkan på mänskligheten:

Dr. S. Humphries.
Dr. S. Tenpenny.
Dr. J. Mikovits.
Dr. A. Wakefield.
__________________
Senast redigerad av RobbyRob44 2020-07-05 kl. 05:11.
Citera
2020-07-05, 04:44
  #343568
Medlem
Vi sitter ju i samma båt! Även om Sverige har bättre data på införsel av statistik. Jag tror inte att vi är bättre eller sämre en något annat EU land vad gäller Covid men vi för bättre statistik.
Citera
2020-07-05, 05:06
  #343569
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av OUFCompulsive
I’m not wrong. I brought up the same questions that subsequent studies have brought up in reference to the Swedish studies the same day it was released.

You are completely lost. The recent ratio (with janky antibody assay parameters) they found was 1.1. The later ratios found is easily attributable to antibody levels dropping below measurable in serum, and cross-reactivity to other HCoV’s that are found to provide no protection. You don’t understand these studies.

But this doesn’t matter, because we already know antibody levels in asymptomatic patients fall below measurable levels over time and is exactly the point I’ve been pushing since the paper released and even before this. This doesn’t suddenly translate to 3x the amount of immunity in the population. If you make this conclusion, you are wrong.
Om man har B-minnesceller mot ett antigen får man ju snabbt tillbaka antikroppar mot just det antigenet.
Citera
2020-07-05, 05:06
  #343570
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av hektorstyle
Please link to that studies.

Just look through the FHM’s press releases here: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/nyheter-och-press/nyhetsarkiv/

But, for ease of viewing:

Last antibody results:
https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/nyheter-och-press/nyhetsarkiv/2020/juni/forsta-resultaten-om-antikroppar-efter-genomgangen-covid-19-hos-blodgivare/

In the randomized blood samples: 5% of the general population had antibodies

In randomized blood samples from Vårdcentralen (which will be skewed high): 6.3%

I don’t know whether the testing parameters are adjusted for the sensitivity/specificity, but running those parameters through a Bayesian inference model would give a result of around 5% for the Vårdcentralen results.

It’s important to note these results are for the end of May moving into June. They have also released a report detailing the active rate of infection in the population in this time frame and estimate it to be around 0.3%. I believe this has now shrunk to around 0.1%, and I can’t see the percentage gained between now and then rising above 2% (I believe somewhere around 1% – 1.5% is more likely):

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/nyheter-och-press/nyhetsarkiv/2020/juni/nya-resultat-om-forekomst-av-covid-19-i-sverige/

This would give us a nationwide infection rate of 8.3% assuming the testing parameters have been adjusted for and there is no bias in selecting blood samples from vårdcentralen (which I believe very strongly there is) — and assuming infection has risen by around 2% over the past month. I believe the truth lies in anywhere from 6-8%.
Citera
2020-07-05, 05:08
  #343571
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av NurseRatched
Om man har B-minnesceller mot ett antigen får man ju snabbt tillbaka antikroppar mot just det antigenet.

Exactly. But cross-reactive T-cells from prior HCoV infections aren’t neutralizing TD4+ cells. They neither prevent infection or modify the potential severity of infection.

But in asymptomatic patients that have produced IgA and IgG responses through B-cells, that have then had these antibody responses drop below measurable results in serum, to the point where only T-cell responses are measurable? I believe this will prevent reinfection.
Citera
2020-07-05, 05:28
  #343572
Medlem
Sverige är nog som England bäst ur EU med tiden. Vi kan inte alltid vara bäst på allt och bli hunsade omkring. Tyvärr får vi betala för mycket för vår ärlighet och statistik. Men en del gillar EU och röstade ja till det. Jag hoppas nu för det bästa vad gäller Sverige. Men vi är nog tyvärr ganska blåögda. En tröst är vår fenomenala kapacitet på forsknings sidan vad gäller läkemedel och i samarbete med framförallt Danmark även mot Covid! Jag älskar landet och folket här i Svea!
__________________
Senast redigerad av Trxhobit 2020-07-05 kl. 05:45.
Citera

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