2018-07-15, 19:42
  #1
Medlem
Nanakorns avatar
I don't believe that Russia has any current plans to invade Europe, but if they did and if the USA pulled of NATO, how do you think the conflict would play out?

I ask this because many of my Swedish friends are convinced that the Nordic Battle group alone could defeat Russia in battle. I however am not convinced. I think a lot of Europeans overestimate their military strength. Moreover, most European countries haven't been in real conflict for several decades so their military's aren't tried and tested. Some, like Sweden, haven't seen war for centuries, yet the citizens often talk like they could take on a whole continent with ease. These folksy have usually never served in the military, police or have any combat training whatsoever. These aren't the country folks with hunting rifles in their security vaults, but rather the anti war types. I'm generalizing based on my personal experience here, sorry for that.

Anyhow, what I'd like to know from you lovely people, is how you think Europe as a hold would fair against Russia if they invaded and the USA wasn't going to help.
Citera
2018-07-15, 19:44
  #2
Medlem
Nanakorns avatar
Some counter arguments:

Citat:
PUBG2018
First of all there is no threat about Russian invasion on our lands! It will be suicide for Russia to invade one single EU-member state or other developed EU state!

This is not 1940s. When two powerful nations can collide with each other in full blown out war! In our times, powerful nations know that both will loose a great amount of international influence if they lost much power. Just like UK did in 1940-50s. When they were so weak all their conquered colonial states fought for their independence and won over UK. I mean they lost like 50-60 foreign states under their kingdom since ww2!

Today powerful nations fight against very weak states or with other powerful states through proxy and economical warfare!

Anyhow, NATO is worthless when it comes to the real thing! Many Europeans does not feel same patriotic feeling they did back in the day! No sane soldier would die for their elites today. No sane and nationalistic soldier would fight with a arab, africa, turk, mongol against another white European neighbour!

That is why the military in major NATO states are SHIT! Majority of soldiers are there just for the money and would never give their life for NATO. There is no patriotic/nationalism feeling left, when foreigners comes to European states and rape your children! When foreign influence change your culture and wants to take over your nation with globalist tool called multicultural "evolution"!

Russians know that war with the rest of Europe is a lost cause!

Citat:
Melange5738

Sorry but you seem like a total n00b in your argumentation. Military conflicts have for millennias been dictated by supply and logistics, secondary by doctrine and numbers and only after that by technology and materials. Russia does not have the logistic capability to take over Europe and hold it from partisan activities and long range tactical bombings from Britain and elsewhere. Russia hasn't even managed to take over eastern Ukraine after several years of fighting with thousands of troops. And that is their old back yard.

Citat:
Fri

UK and France will of course not use their nukes until they themselves are invaded. UK seems to have long range nukes only on 4 submarines. New secret technology or treason might sink them all to begin with. Trusting their politics and technology for our defense is naive. No one intervened in the Yugoslav war in the early 1990s, for example, where 140,000 were killed. They were, like Sweden, also a mid-sized socialist country without any alliances in the middle of Europe.

I don't follow the military situation closely at all (but maybe I should, it can get interesting...) But I've read that Germany (at that time recently anyway) cannot field any single submarines. And that their new frigate class, large as a destroyer, is practically unarmed. Western Europe's military has been reformed to things like the needs of refugees in the Mediterranean and logistic support for new NATO wars in the Middle East. Meanwhile Russia's military is not only huge compared with that of Europe, it is modern! All built since Putin came to power year 2000. They have excellent anti aircraft missiles and rocketry overall, aircrafts, tanks. They make sudden "snap drills" involving 100,000 troops. That is what we face with what we have in full readiness the same day they invade.

The Swedish military has the political goal of being able to defend one site for one week. That goal was set 5-10 years ago, but no funding has been provided for it and it would take several years to achieve it even if funding was no longer a problem. Instead the military is now canceling drills and recruitments for lack of money. The $50 billion it costs every year results in no military capability, compare that with what the Russians achieve with the same amount of money!

Most dangerously, most European politicians are idiots who never have achieved anything. The crises keep lining up without any of them being solved. Against this the intelligent Putin. Quality of leadership is very important in wars.
Citera
2018-07-15, 23:50
  #3
Medlem
tigerrakets avatar
Well, if Russia would invade "Europe" would they invade every country at the same time? Cuz that is a lot of space and a lot of logistics. I think Europe would unite and perhaps leave some countrys and draw a new line where europe starts, and defend that line with a combined army.
Citera
2018-07-15, 23:54
  #4
Medlem
ReiseReises avatar
NATO har fortfarande kärnvapen utan USA.
Citera
2018-07-19, 13:49
  #5
Medlem
The End of NATO?

Citat:
US President Donald Trump escalated his war on US alliances and multilateral institutions at NATO's summit in Brussels and then at his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki. There is now little doubt that Trump's strange affinity for Putin represents a serious threat to European security.
Source: https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/trump-nato-russian-aggression-by-carl-bildt-2018-07
Citera
2018-07-20, 01:47
  #6
Medlem
Nanakorns avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av 2006
The End of NATO?
But could Europe fend of Russia if they attempted to Invade?
Citera
2018-07-20, 08:49
  #7
Medlem
Trumps penningpolitiska utspel en flopp för dollarn
https://www.svd.se/trumps-penningpolitiska-utspel-en-flopp-for-dollarn

Snart får han säkert nobelpriset i ekonomi också
Citera
2018-07-21, 20:20
  #8
Medlem
RobbanUCs avatar
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Nanakorn
But could Europe fend of Russia if they attempted to Invade?

A totally irrelevant question.
An invasion is the least effective and the most expensive way to wage war.
A total waste of manpower, money and resources.
Citera
2018-07-21, 20:23
  #9
Medlem
Legionariis avatar
No, Europe could not defend itself against a outside aggression if the US were to leave NATO, given how the US is the manpower behind the whole military pact. Europe as a whole can barely agree on anything nowadays, let alone put their focus on the NATO contracted commitments.
Citera
2018-07-21, 21:32
  #10
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Legionarii
No, Europe could not defend itself against a outside aggression if the US were to leave NATO, given how the US is the manpower behind the whole military pact. Europe as a whole can barely agree on anything nowadays, let alone put their focus on the NATO contracted commitments.

And i strongly disagree. The whole concept is bizarre to start with, Russia can´t wage a war against the whole of Europe. This isn´t 1940. But...

If ie. EU countries would combine all of their forces i am pretty certain of that Russia couldn´t win such a scenario. Yep, Russia has a lot of troops and equipment but that doesn´t mean they could use it all. A majority of all their forces aren´t battle ready- or even trained enough. While if you ONLY look at European countries and their ACTIVE forces, they will imho have an upper hand...by far.

Ie. just the small country of Finland has about 165000 active soldiers, and a staggering reserve of 900000(!). Germany has about 180000 soldiers. UK, Italy and France has about 100000 soldiers each. Not counting reserves. Further more most countries in the EU has modern equipment, while Russia has a really wide variety of both modern and obsolete equipment.

Finally, a Total War scenario is extremely unlikely anyhow. But if you just play with the thought, there is still a lot of things you have to consider. Ie. If Russia would like to start a war, they have to arm their troops and achieve some sort of readiness. In todays world, an armament like that is close to impossible to hide. You can´t move hundreds of thousands of troops, thousands of vehicles etc. The whole world would detect it. Even if they sped everything up as much as possible, bordering countries would also start to scramble their forces. And once the attack is finally released, the rest of Europe will have a lot of time to arm their forces to a complete maximum.

Neighbouring countries would have a really hard time, but it is still not a walk in the park. I highly doubt ie. Russia could just steamroll into Finland and win in a few days/weeks. It they would spread out on multiple flanks (towards other countries), it would render even Russia kind of weak.
Citera
2018-07-21, 22:20
  #11
Medlem
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av Nanakorn
But could Europe fend of Russia if they attempted to Invade?
Yes they could, Nordic battlegroup may be to small but Europe could defeat a Russia invasion attempt, Russia is still a papertiger.
Citera
2018-08-04, 06:41
  #12
Medlem
Ryssland är omringat på 3 sidor av USA och Nato, Natos militärbudget lär vara 12:1 Rysslands men det är alltså ryssland som är de aggressiva hotfulla ???

Fundera på det ni.
Citera
  • 1
  • 2

Skapa ett konto eller logga in för att kommentera

Du måste vara medlem för att kunna kommentera

Skapa ett konto

Det är enkelt att registrera ett nytt konto

Bli medlem

Logga in

Har du redan ett konto? Logga in här

Logga in