Draken55 är en osedvanligt dum debattör som hoppar in i trådar och förstör all diskussion genom att bestämt hävda att det just han tycker är sant, och att alla som inte delar den åsikten är idioter. För att sätta stopp för detta debattdödande väljer jag här att posta ett par inlägg från sajten Quora, där frågan "Är NK kommunistiskt?" diskuterades av normalbegåvade människor. Oavsett om man håller med dessa debattörer eller inte - notera skillnaden i både kunskap och formuleringsförmåga jämfört med Draken55:s byfåneinlägg.
Även om Quora befinner sig ljusår ovanför Draken55:s nivå så är även detta såklart inget märkvärdigt. För en djupare diskussion av ämnet bör man givetvis läsa forskningsartiklar eller böcker skrivna av Nordkoreakännare.
Citat:
North Korea was "CINO" or "communist in name only" until the early 2000s. But it has never been an orthodox communist country and dropped all references to communism, Marxism and Leninism over the last decade.
One major difference is that orthodox communism (officially, though not always in practice) embraces equality of the sexes and tends to deemphasize the importance of the family. But North Korea generally expects women to embrace traditional, "feminine" roles. They may work outside the home (because the regime needs the labour) but women are expected to be first and foremost, homemakers and raise children. Until fairly recently women were not allowed to wear pants in public and ride bicycles in Pyongyang because they were considered unfeminine.
Marxism is explicitly post-racial. All the world's races, ethnicities and peoples are one. However, North Korean ideology is extremely xenophobic. The official ideology of the regime says that Koreans are the cleanest, purist and most noble ethnicity. Other Asians (particularly the Japanese), Africans, Europeans and others are morally and genetically inferior to Koreans. They strongly object to inter-ethnic relationships to the point that if a North Korean woman becomes pregnant with a child conceived with a person of another race or ethnicity (including Chinese), the state will force the woman to abort and send her to a labour camp. One of their major criticisms of the South Korean regime is for allowing South Koreans to form relationships with outsiders.
Also, orthodox Marxism asserts that society's goal is to become classless and egalitarian. But the North Korean state ranks everyone by a hereditary caste system called songbun or social class, which is Confucian in nature, and determines what type of access a citizen gets to opportunities and services. Those who had ancestors that fought for the liberation of North Korea have a high songbun. Those whose ancestors were landowners, Christians or have mixed ancestry (particularly those who have Japanese ancestors) have low songbun and cannot live in Pyongyang (which has a much higher standard of living than the rest of the country), go to good schools or get a good job. When the North Korean economy collapsed in the early 1990s, the state withheld food rations from the lower songbun classes while the higher classes continued to receive food. So the resulting famine was targeted at lower class people.
Finally, Marxist ideology emphasizes that the people are the driving force of a country. The working class is supposed to guide a country as the state withers away. However North Korean ideology says that the Leader is the guide, the people are infantile, and need to be guided like a father guides a family. No doubt, there were occasional elements of this in the personality cults of Stalinist era in Russia and with Ceaușescu in Romania, but it was never as explicit as in North Korea.
North Korea officially embraces "Juche" or self reliance, though that has never been particularly well defined and exists more as a slogan than a practical ideology. Many outside observers believe North Korea's ideology is, ironically, derived from Japanese fascism of the WWII era. It could also be characterized as an absolute monarchy (with succession passed through heredity, like European monarchs) in neo-Stalinist drag.
One major difference is that orthodox communism (officially, though not always in practice) embraces equality of the sexes and tends to deemphasize the importance of the family. But North Korea generally expects women to embrace traditional, "feminine" roles. They may work outside the home (because the regime needs the labour) but women are expected to be first and foremost, homemakers and raise children. Until fairly recently women were not allowed to wear pants in public and ride bicycles in Pyongyang because they were considered unfeminine.
Marxism is explicitly post-racial. All the world's races, ethnicities and peoples are one. However, North Korean ideology is extremely xenophobic. The official ideology of the regime says that Koreans are the cleanest, purist and most noble ethnicity. Other Asians (particularly the Japanese), Africans, Europeans and others are morally and genetically inferior to Koreans. They strongly object to inter-ethnic relationships to the point that if a North Korean woman becomes pregnant with a child conceived with a person of another race or ethnicity (including Chinese), the state will force the woman to abort and send her to a labour camp. One of their major criticisms of the South Korean regime is for allowing South Koreans to form relationships with outsiders.
Also, orthodox Marxism asserts that society's goal is to become classless and egalitarian. But the North Korean state ranks everyone by a hereditary caste system called songbun or social class, which is Confucian in nature, and determines what type of access a citizen gets to opportunities and services. Those who had ancestors that fought for the liberation of North Korea have a high songbun. Those whose ancestors were landowners, Christians or have mixed ancestry (particularly those who have Japanese ancestors) have low songbun and cannot live in Pyongyang (which has a much higher standard of living than the rest of the country), go to good schools or get a good job. When the North Korean economy collapsed in the early 1990s, the state withheld food rations from the lower songbun classes while the higher classes continued to receive food. So the resulting famine was targeted at lower class people.
Finally, Marxist ideology emphasizes that the people are the driving force of a country. The working class is supposed to guide a country as the state withers away. However North Korean ideology says that the Leader is the guide, the people are infantile, and need to be guided like a father guides a family. No doubt, there were occasional elements of this in the personality cults of Stalinist era in Russia and with Ceaușescu in Romania, but it was never as explicit as in North Korea.
North Korea officially embraces "Juche" or self reliance, though that has never been particularly well defined and exists more as a slogan than a practical ideology. Many outside observers believe North Korea's ideology is, ironically, derived from Japanese fascism of the WWII era. It could also be characterized as an absolute monarchy (with succession passed through heredity, like European monarchs) in neo-Stalinist drag.
Citat:
Dan Sloan's answer is excellent. I will only add a few points.
1. Communist states generally are interested in freeing global workers from their chains. North Korea absolutely does not. Its interest is in uniting the pure race of North and South Korea and then shutting out everyone else, forever. It could not possibly care less about liberating oppressed workers in other states. It allies with China and Russia to obtain cash.
2. Communist states actually generally had extensive educational institutions and cheap or free university programs, even if the content itself was controlled and questionable. Cubans often have very high degree attainments. North Korea strongly pushes the idea of its citizens as simple, innocent, emotional, delicate creatures-- the propaganda lauds passionate workers, not thinkers. Its educational standards are shockingly low.
3. Communist states, for all of their evils, were in one sense quite honest: a state such as the USSR really did believe their system was better, and the west was at least dealing with a fairly rational opponent with predictable motives. North Korea seems to enjoy giving the external impression of being communist, but as with juche, it seems more a smokescreen. Internally, I would call North Korea a gangsterocracy which uses the vocabulary of socialism and terror as noise to distract and confuse the west.
1. Communist states generally are interested in freeing global workers from their chains. North Korea absolutely does not. Its interest is in uniting the pure race of North and South Korea and then shutting out everyone else, forever. It could not possibly care less about liberating oppressed workers in other states. It allies with China and Russia to obtain cash.
2. Communist states actually generally had extensive educational institutions and cheap or free university programs, even if the content itself was controlled and questionable. Cubans often have very high degree attainments. North Korea strongly pushes the idea of its citizens as simple, innocent, emotional, delicate creatures-- the propaganda lauds passionate workers, not thinkers. Its educational standards are shockingly low.
3. Communist states, for all of their evils, were in one sense quite honest: a state such as the USSR really did believe their system was better, and the west was at least dealing with a fairly rational opponent with predictable motives. North Korea seems to enjoy giving the external impression of being communist, but as with juche, it seems more a smokescreen. Internally, I would call North Korea a gangsterocracy which uses the vocabulary of socialism and terror as noise to distract and confuse the west.
Citat:
https://www.quora.com/Is-North-Korea-a-communist-country
When asking if a country is communist, we are really asking three things:
1. Is the country truly communist, in the sense of reaching the final stage of communism as predicted by Marx? No country can be described as communist in this sense.
2. Even if it has not achieved true communism, is it making a good attempt? Does it have a centrally planned economy and other distinctive "communist" features? The Soviet Union and China for much of the 20th century fit into this category.
3. Even if it is certainly not communist at all, does it claim to be? China today fits into this category.
For North Korea today, the answers are no, maybe, and no. The most surprising fact is that the answer to #3 is no. North Korea has dropped all official references to Communism, Marx, Lenin, etc., and solely espouses the native North Korean ideology of "Juche". #2 is a more difficult question; certainly in some ways North Korea today resembles China and the USSR several decades ago, although there are also many differences.
1. Is the country truly communist, in the sense of reaching the final stage of communism as predicted by Marx? No country can be described as communist in this sense.
2. Even if it has not achieved true communism, is it making a good attempt? Does it have a centrally planned economy and other distinctive "communist" features? The Soviet Union and China for much of the 20th century fit into this category.
3. Even if it is certainly not communist at all, does it claim to be? China today fits into this category.
For North Korea today, the answers are no, maybe, and no. The most surprising fact is that the answer to #3 is no. North Korea has dropped all official references to Communism, Marx, Lenin, etc., and solely espouses the native North Korean ideology of "Juche". #2 is a more difficult question; certainly in some ways North Korea today resembles China and the USSR several decades ago, although there are also many differences.
Även om Quora befinner sig ljusår ovanför Draken55:s nivå så är även detta såklart inget märkvärdigt. För en djupare diskussion av ämnet bör man givetvis läsa forskningsartiklar eller böcker skrivna av Nordkoreakännare.
