2005-05-31, 18:12
#1166
2005-05-31, 18:21
#1167
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av stanislav
Svara först på mina frågor i mitt senaste inlägg i denna tråd! (1164)
Ok, låt oss vara hövliga!
Ok, låt oss vara hövliga!
Då tycker jag du ska föregå med gott exempel och svara på någon fråga först,
ta dem i mitt senaste inlägg här till att börja med så svarar jag sedan på dem i inlägg 1164. Ömsesidighet, stanislav, annars har vi ingen diskussion överhuvudtaget
- men den enkla samtalsregeln att svara på relevanta frågor har också varit omöjlig att efterleva för de gaskammartroende i dessa stundtals onödigt hätska trådar.
2005-06-02, 15:55
#1168
2005-06-02, 22:58
#1169
2005-06-02, 23:14
#1170
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av stanislav
Men dessa siffror är inte säkra och ingen kan påstå att den vet säkert hur många som mördades i Auschwitzkomplexet. Ett stort antal av nazisternas offer är okända. Personligen tror jag att siffran 1,1 miljoner inte kommer att förändras på länge.
Den har ju redan förändrats, från exterminationistiskt håll, Pressac är den ende som försökt gå på djupet utifrån den fixa idén att bårhuslokalerna användes som "gaskammare":
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/anf/Faurisson2.html
Citat:
"---However, in the German translation J.-C. Pressac sets the number of deaths at Auschwitz at 630,000 to 710,000 — in round numbers — of which, he indicates, 470,000 to 550,000 were Jewish gassing victims. (Die Crematorien ..., p. 202).
The English translation is more interesting still. For one thing, it does not contain any estimate of the total number of deaths or of gassing victims!---"
The English translation is more interesting still. For one thing, it does not contain any estimate of the total number of deaths or of gassing victims!---"
Fritjof Meyer, som övergav de för gasningsmyten så tvivelaktiga likkällarna och satsade på de "bunkrar" utanför Birkenau av vilka föga eller intet återstår (om de överhuvud existerade), reducerade det tänkbara offerantalet än mer:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v21/v21n3p24_weber.html
Citat:
"---In his recent Osteuropa article, Fritjof Meyer presents a further revision downwards. He writes: “These considerations are the basis for the conclusion here that in Auschwitz half a million people were murdered, about 356,000 of them with gas.” Similarly, Meyer ends his article by concluding that 510,000 lost their lives in Auschwitz, of whom 356,000 “probably” were killed by gas.---"
Då är vi inte så långt från den revisionistiska synen på Auschwitz-Birkenau, med minst 130.000 omkomna fångar.
Citat:
Att beskriva Auschwitz som enbart ett arbets- och transitläger är att gå emot allt historiskt förnuft. Revisionisterna granskar varenda ord, term, i tillgängliga dokument och som upptäckare av inkonsekvenser är de kanske bra, men inte som historieskrivare eftersom de i sin sk forskning åsidosätter all logik och sunt förnuft i sin sk tolkning av förintelsen. De förvränger och misstolkar, och utelämnar uppgifter som inte passar in i deras "tolkning" av förintelsen.
Ett arbets-och transitläger med tidvis hög dödlighet, särskilt p.g.a. tyfusepidemier men givetvis även orsakat av de umbäranden som oundvikligen drabbar fångar i ett stort arbetsläger under krigstid. Att överge myten om Auschwitz-Birkenau som "Förintelseläger" är i själva verket att tillämpa det historievetenskapliga förnuftet på tillgängliga fakta.
Citat:
Detta är bara mina tankar, som jag är helt övertygad om att ni kommer att fullständigt förhåna, förlöjliga med diverse banala argument och kalla mig Holocaustmytoman osv.
Nej, nu är du alldeles för lättstött och misstänksam
, varför skulle någon förhåna och förlöjliga den som argumenterar på ett seriöst sätt och själv avstår från personangrepp? Visserligen är det vad de gaskammartroende i dessa trådar ofta gjort, men så beter man sig inte i vår brokiga och toleranta skara av Shoahskeptiska dissidenter. Jag ska själv kommentera fler aspekter av dina inlägg senare.
2005-06-03, 08:40
#1173
2005-06-03, 10:45
#1174
Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av stanislav
Inte ett enda av dina invändningar har substans.
Men vad anser du om mina tankar kring deportationerna österut?
Svara på ett genomtänkt sätt, hänvisa inte till revisionistlänkar, tänk själv!
Antalet deporterade bygger visst på vetenskaplig grund. Det finns transportlistor bevarade, vi känner till de olika registreringserierna, namnlistor från getton (även om mycket har förstörts).
Vart tog alla människor vägen????
Ja, det är beklagligt att siffran fortfarande förekommer.
Tittade nyligen igenom Hastings bok "Harmagedon" och även i den anger han en för hög siffra utan några källhänvisningar. Det är synd och olyckligt, men det är inte den sprickan (revisionisterna arbetar efter metoden att en spricka kommer få hela huset att rasa) som kommer rasera hela förintelsen.
En felaktig siffra betyder ingenting i sammanhanget och den som tror det kan inte värdera historien på ett objektivt sätt utan är fast i sitt tänkande i en föga smickrande riktning.
Men vad anser du om mina tankar kring deportationerna österut?
Svara på ett genomtänkt sätt, hänvisa inte till revisionistlänkar, tänk själv!
Antalet deporterade bygger visst på vetenskaplig grund. Det finns transportlistor bevarade, vi känner till de olika registreringserierna, namnlistor från getton (även om mycket har förstörts).
Vart tog alla människor vägen????
Ja, det är beklagligt att siffran fortfarande förekommer.
Tittade nyligen igenom Hastings bok "Harmagedon" och även i den anger han en för hög siffra utan några källhänvisningar. Det är synd och olyckligt, men det är inte den sprickan (revisionisterna arbetar efter metoden att en spricka kommer få hela huset att rasa) som kommer rasera hela förintelsen.
En felaktig siffra betyder ingenting i sammanhanget och den som tror det kan inte värdera historien på ett objektivt sätt utan är fast i sitt tänkande i en föga smickrande riktning.
Var inte så slö och samtidigt rigid, stanislav, och låtsas inte som om du har "tänkt själv" bara för att du utelämnar hänvisningar till den litteratur du excerperar och kompilerar i dina två långa inlägg.
Läs en del kritiskt granskande artiklar, och du kanske ska häpna över viljan till nyansering och erkännande av hur osäkert källäget många gånger är, från revisionistiskt håll, dessa förkättrade och förtalade revisionister...Jag tror inte att din karriär äventyras för att du läser några revisionistiska studier, du får helt enkelt hålla det hemligt för Jackie och Stéphane när du fått doktorstiteln och bjuds hem till något Yom Kippurfirande 
.Om vi tar frågan om de ungerska judarnas öde, bland dem den då femtonårige Imre Kertész, som låg sjuk hela vintern 1945 och tillsammans med många andra fick vård i stället för att likvideras, även fastän det enligt hans egen beskrivning fanns föga hopp om att göra honom "arbetsduglig", så har ju Graf kloka reflektioner om den saken:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/19/v19n4p-4_Graf.html
Citat:
"---In the 1994 German edition of his second book, Jean-Claude Pressac writes:[note 55] "By the end of the war, according to the Encyclopaedia Judaica, Hungarian Jewish males and females were found in 386 concentration and labor camps, as well as in labor units, where they had survived a real martyrdom. They were seen everywhere, from a few hundred in the labor units to tens of thousands in the 'big' camps."
We see no reason to doubt the veracity of this statement. One of the most crucial unsolved problems is the question of where the unemployable Hungarian Jews were billeted. Birkenau simply could not accommodate all of them. We are not aware of documents about a camp situated outside Auschwitz where these people were housed. If such documents existed, they were most likely destroyed or hidden by the victors, as they were radically incompatible with the legend of the end of Hungarian Jews in Birkenau's gas chambers.
The fact that among the deported Hungarian Jews there was a certain number of children is due, most probably, to the German policy of not separating families. (Of course, it would have been better for these children if they had not been deported at all, but that's another matter.) The Jewish children were by no means murdered as "useless eaters," as the official "Holocaust" history contends. Proof of this are the documents Mattogno and I found during our third research visit to Russian archives. I am referring in particular to a 217-page report written in early 1945, shortly after the Soviet liberation of Auschwitz. It was written, in German, under the auspices of the Soviets by four former camp inmates, the Jewish physicians Lebovits, Weil, Reich and Bloch. It contains more than a thousand names of Auschwitz prisoners, nearly all of them Jews, with information about each one's age and date of imprisonment. These prisoners had been in the Auschwitz hospital on January 27, 1945, when the Red Army took control of the camp. Among those patients are 97 boys and 83 girls in ages ranging from a few months to 15 years.[note 56] One was a three-year-old Hungarian Jewish boy, J. J. Malek, and another was an eleven-year-old Hungarian Jewish girl, R. M. Salomon.[note 57] The former had arrived at Auschwitz in May 1944, the latter in July of the same year. According to the official "Holocaust" story, these two Jewish children would never have lived to see the year 1945; they would have been gassed immediately upon arrival.
Under the present circumstances, it is of course not possible to determine the number of victims among the deported Hungarian Jews, but it was probably on the order of several tens of thousands. It is a well-known fact that countless prisoners succumbed to diseases in the chaotic final months of the war. At any rate, Jews were not exactly an endangered species in postwar Hungary. They almost completely dominated the Communist Party and the dreaded secret police during the first years of the brutal Soviet-imposed regime headed by the Jew Matyas Rakosi.[note 58] For a time in the early 1950s, there was only one non-Jew in the Central Committee of the ruling Hungarian Communist Party. (According to a popular joke of the time, he had been given this position to ensure that someone in the Central Committee would be able to sign death sentences on the Sabbath.)
5. Conclusion
With their historical and technical arguments, the revisionists have demolished the "Holocaust" extermination and gas chamber legends. But their task is far from complete. Thus far, they have only partly succeeded in demonstrating what really did happen to Europe's Jews during the Second World War.
Many revisionists regard Walter Sanning's 1993 book, The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry,[note 59] as the definitive answer to this question. And while Sanning has indeed produced an admirable work that no serious researcher can afford to ignore, what I said about Butz's The Hoax of the Twentieth Century may equally apply to Sanning's demographic study: Even an outstanding work can contain errors. Sanning's book suffers from two flaws: The author does not take into account the "Korherr Report,"[note 60] the most important German wartime document about Europe's Jewish population, and he puts too much faith in Soviet sources. For example, he relies heavily on David Bergelson, head of the wartime Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, who said that more than 80 percent of the Soviet Jews were evacuated prior to the arrival of the advancing German forces, and therefore never came under German control. Sanning does not consider the possibility that Bergelson exaggerated the number of evacuated Soviet Jews to enhance the image of the Soviet regime as the "Savior of the Jews from Fascism." The declarations of a Soviet propagandist should be regarded with skepticism.
Decisive progress in the investigation of the fate of Europe's Jews during the Second World War, including reliable estimates of Jewish wartime losses, can be expected only after historians gain access to previously unknown documents from archives in eastern Europe and the former USSR. When I say "historians" I naturally mean the revisionists, because our opponents will not tackle this task.---"
We see no reason to doubt the veracity of this statement. One of the most crucial unsolved problems is the question of where the unemployable Hungarian Jews were billeted. Birkenau simply could not accommodate all of them. We are not aware of documents about a camp situated outside Auschwitz where these people were housed. If such documents existed, they were most likely destroyed or hidden by the victors, as they were radically incompatible with the legend of the end of Hungarian Jews in Birkenau's gas chambers.
The fact that among the deported Hungarian Jews there was a certain number of children is due, most probably, to the German policy of not separating families. (Of course, it would have been better for these children if they had not been deported at all, but that's another matter.) The Jewish children were by no means murdered as "useless eaters," as the official "Holocaust" history contends. Proof of this are the documents Mattogno and I found during our third research visit to Russian archives. I am referring in particular to a 217-page report written in early 1945, shortly after the Soviet liberation of Auschwitz. It was written, in German, under the auspices of the Soviets by four former camp inmates, the Jewish physicians Lebovits, Weil, Reich and Bloch. It contains more than a thousand names of Auschwitz prisoners, nearly all of them Jews, with information about each one's age and date of imprisonment. These prisoners had been in the Auschwitz hospital on January 27, 1945, when the Red Army took control of the camp. Among those patients are 97 boys and 83 girls in ages ranging from a few months to 15 years.[note 56] One was a three-year-old Hungarian Jewish boy, J. J. Malek, and another was an eleven-year-old Hungarian Jewish girl, R. M. Salomon.[note 57] The former had arrived at Auschwitz in May 1944, the latter in July of the same year. According to the official "Holocaust" story, these two Jewish children would never have lived to see the year 1945; they would have been gassed immediately upon arrival.
Under the present circumstances, it is of course not possible to determine the number of victims among the deported Hungarian Jews, but it was probably on the order of several tens of thousands. It is a well-known fact that countless prisoners succumbed to diseases in the chaotic final months of the war. At any rate, Jews were not exactly an endangered species in postwar Hungary. They almost completely dominated the Communist Party and the dreaded secret police during the first years of the brutal Soviet-imposed regime headed by the Jew Matyas Rakosi.[note 58] For a time in the early 1950s, there was only one non-Jew in the Central Committee of the ruling Hungarian Communist Party. (According to a popular joke of the time, he had been given this position to ensure that someone in the Central Committee would be able to sign death sentences on the Sabbath.)
5. Conclusion
With their historical and technical arguments, the revisionists have demolished the "Holocaust" extermination and gas chamber legends. But their task is far from complete. Thus far, they have only partly succeeded in demonstrating what really did happen to Europe's Jews during the Second World War.
Many revisionists regard Walter Sanning's 1993 book, The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry,[note 59] as the definitive answer to this question. And while Sanning has indeed produced an admirable work that no serious researcher can afford to ignore, what I said about Butz's The Hoax of the Twentieth Century may equally apply to Sanning's demographic study: Even an outstanding work can contain errors. Sanning's book suffers from two flaws: The author does not take into account the "Korherr Report,"[note 60] the most important German wartime document about Europe's Jewish population, and he puts too much faith in Soviet sources. For example, he relies heavily on David Bergelson, head of the wartime Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, who said that more than 80 percent of the Soviet Jews were evacuated prior to the arrival of the advancing German forces, and therefore never came under German control. Sanning does not consider the possibility that Bergelson exaggerated the number of evacuated Soviet Jews to enhance the image of the Soviet regime as the "Savior of the Jews from Fascism." The declarations of a Soviet propagandist should be regarded with skepticism.
Decisive progress in the investigation of the fate of Europe's Jews during the Second World War, including reliable estimates of Jewish wartime losses, can be expected only after historians gain access to previously unknown documents from archives in eastern Europe and the former USSR. When I say "historians" I naturally mean the revisionists, because our opponents will not tackle this task.---"
Jag ställde ett par frågor i inlägg 1172, föranledda av dina påståenden.
Jag har nu fetstilat dem, så du inte missar dem igen.
2005-06-03, 10:55
#1175
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