Citat:
Ursprungligen postat av
Massajen
Pressac har jag endast läst referat av och det var länge sedan. Faurissons bok Memoire en Defence för ännu längre tillbaka. Går det att hitta någon klargörande debatt publicerad mellan honom och Pressac där den senare gör en vidräkning med sin förre "mentor"?
van Pelt presenterar en del bevis för massgasningar, men dom är faktiskt betydligt svagare än vad man först kan tro. Jag följde Irvingrättegången ganska utförligt. Man kan t ex ta del av Irvings korsförhör med van Pelt.
https://www.hdot.org/day10/#
Det finns vittnesmål om gasningar som konvergerar, men det som saknas på den sidan är edsvurna vittnesmål där vittnet korsförhörs av båda sidor i rätten. Såvitt jag vet finns inget sådant i alla de många rättsliga processerna efter kriget.
Visst är storyn om judetvålarna en myt. RIF står inte för Rent Judiskt Fett, utan för Reichsstelle für industrielle Fettversorgung
Det är en skröna som spreds av självaste Wiesenthal 1946. Lägg märke till att det här inte betyder att det aldrig kunde ha förekommit tvålar, eller för den delen lampskärmar och andra vardagsföremål tillverkade av människorester från KZ-lägren. Men det är en helt annan sak att påstå att det rörde sig om industriell massproduktion vilket Wiesenthal menade. Sådana ohyggligheter förekommer i krig och fångenskap. Jag hade en finsk släkting som vaktade ryska fångar under kriget. Han berättade hur officerarna använde ryska kranier som askkoppar. Samma vanor kunde bevisligen påträffas på amerikanska officersmässar. Fast där rörde det sig naturligtvis om japaner.
Det trodde jag också för några år sedan, att det var en skröna om Judetvålen. Jag hade samma åsikt som du med
RIF (RJF) Reichsstelle für industrielle Fettversorgung. Så långt är vi överens, det är konstaterat det är ej några
judetvålar.
Sedan sprang på följande:
Men någon fick iden undersöka dessa tvålar. Ett forskning team undersökte några bitar som hade använts som bevis under rättegången.
Saturday, October 07, 2006
The Nazis used human fat to make soap during World War II in a Nazi German medical academy located in what is now the Polish Baltic sea port city of Gdansk, Polish war crimes prosecutors confirmed on Friday, pointing to new laboratory tests.
Officials with Poland's Institute for National Remembrance (IPN) based their findings on a laboratory analysis of a piece of soap found in 1945 in the medical academy in Gdansk run by Nazi German Professor Rudolf Spanner.
A new laboratory analysis of the soap revealed human fat was one of its components, spokesperson for the Gdansk branch of the IPN, Paulina Szumera, told Deutsche Presse-Agentur in a telephone interview on Friday.
Commissioned by the IPN, Professor Andrzej Stolyhwo of the Warsaw Agricultural University found human tissue in the soap.
The piece of soap was used as evidence in the post-WWII Nuremburg Trials where prominent German Nazis were prosecuted for crimes against humanity. At the time, prosecutors lacked the technology to determine whether the soap contained human tissue.
Human remains used to make the soap were believed to have been brought from Kaliningrad, Bydgoszcz and the Stutthof Nazi German concentration camp located about 30 from Gdansk.
The IPN investigation found that the soap in question produced by Professor Spanner was used to clean operating and autopsy rooms. -- Sapa-dpa
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...sed-human.html
Man undersökte det vidare, fann fler undersökningar.
No End of History for the "Jewish Soap" Myth? inleds detta forum inlägg :
In the spring of 2011, a new book appeared on the market for Holocaust literature: The Holocaust Object in Polish and Polish-Jewish Culture. It was preceded already in 2010 by its Polish language version, Rzeczy i zagłada.
The underlying idea of Shallcross’ approach is that things used by human beings are more than pieces of dead matter: they testify to their owner’s life, they are part of his/her personality. “Holocaust objects,” commodities and utensils of everyday life, at that time taken away from the deportees for “recycling” to the benefit of the Germans and their collaborators and today exhibited at Holocaust museums, are the last vestiges of the life of a people brutally destroyed in the gas chambers or on the killing fields in the East. They are “Jewish” objects, and like the things found at an archeological excavation site, they tell us about their former owners, about a civilization forever lost.
The appropriation of Jewish objects, however, did not stop with the confiscation of the victim’s last shirt in the anteroom of the gas chamber. In the Holocaust, Shallcross argues, the Jewish body itself became an object, was “reified,” became property of the Reich. As examples of the treatment of Jewish bodies as objects may serve the searching of the corpses of the murdered for hidden valuables, cut open like the seams of the victims’ clothes or the soles of their shoes, or the burning of the exploited corpses like trash.
Rumors had circulated within the Medical Academy since the spring of 1944 to the effect that in the “maceratorium,” a small building in the courtyard, shrouded in mystery, soap was made from human body parts. These rumors, indeed, were not baseless. The building (which still exists and is used as a storeroom for housekeeping) was Spanner’s research laboratory, where he and his closest collaborators made organ and skeleton preparations by “maceration,” i.e. treating specially prepared body parts with a watery solution of sodium hydroxide in an autoclave at about 110 degrees (45 centigrade) for a certain period of time, on the average three to five days. It is quite normal that such a laboratory is off limits to unauthorized persons, a fact that by no means points to a secret, “criminal” activity, as imputed by the Main Commission.
osv...
STUDY CONFIRMS: NAZIS MADE SOAP FROM HUMAN BODIES
Poland's National Remembrance Institute confirms: 'We have determined that, without shadow of a doubt, soap was produced using substances obtained from human bodies'
Copyright © Yedioth Internet. All rights reserved.
AFP
Published: 10.10.06, 09:09 / Israel Jewish Scene
Poland's Nazi German occupiers used "substances" from the bodies of concentration camp prisoners to make soap, a study carried out by Poland's National Remembrance Institute (IPN) to counter the arguments of negationists showed Friday.
"We have determined that, without the shadow of a doubt, soap was produced using substances obtained from human bodies at the anatomical insitute of the Medical Academy of Danzig, led by Professor Rudolf Spanner," Paulina Szumera of the IPN told AFP.
Danzig is the German name for the Polish city of Gdansk.
"We launched our investigation to still the voices denying that this ever happened," she said.
Evidence for Nuremberg trials
For the IPN probe, Polish scientists studied a bar of soap that was presented as evidence during the Nuremberg Nazi war crime trials after World War II, that was in the archives of the International Court of Justice in The Hague, Szumera said.
Polish television station TVN24 cited IPN investigators as saying the bodies of prisoners at the Nazi concentration camp of Stutthof, in northern Poland, and at Gdansk municipal jail were used to make the soap.
The bodies of patients at a psychiatric hospital in Gdansk were also used, the investigators told TVN24.
Several dozen kilogrammes of soap were produced by the Nazis in Gdansk and used to clean Spanner's laboratory work surfaces, the IPN said.
Almond extract was added to the soap to give it a palatable scent.
Soaps are usually made from fats and oils that react with lye (sodium hydroxide).
Copyright © Yedioth Internet. All rights reserved.
Som du ser det är inte tvålar endast av judar, utan det är av handikappade människor som hade använts som försöksobjekt. Men tvålarna består av mänskliga substanser, men ej av judar? det vet vi inte om det fanns några judar bland dessa handikappade människor.
Vi har gått djupt in i detta, funnit sådana saker. Men visst det finns "storyn" som låter osannolika. Skrönor, det kan man säga om judetvålen också, för det är ej endast judar utan människor.
Men varför gjorde tyskarna detta? Brist på råvaror!? framtvinga dem att göra alternativ saker med vad de har? Som hår är ju känt att man kan använda till tillverkning av bröd. Inget ovanligt i heller i Tyskland i dag fortfarande.