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Citat:
Ja lite grann! Vi upplever kanske samma saker men känner antagligen olika. Ibland har jag till och med tänkt så här: Ser vi ett objekt på samma sätt? Eller har vi alla olika sätt att se? Det måste vi ju ha eftersom att jag kan tycka att en man är enormt snygg men min väninna tycker att han är ful.
Vi är i samma värld och upplever samma saker men upplever inte samma känsla.
Vi är i samma värld och upplever samma saker men upplever inte samma känsla.
Just det! Det är såklart svårt att definiera var din väninna tycker han är ful och var du tycker han är snygg. Får ni samma objektiva bild och pålägger olika värden, eller ser ni rent utav helt olika saker? Går det överhuvudtaget att beskriva exakt hur en person ser ut för någon annan utan att nämna subjektiva ord som "snygg"? Blir den beskrivningen isåfall otillfredsställande?
För att återgå till det ursprungliga ämnet men även tangera det som nyss sagts, så sa ju Sartre att vi människor har en mur mellan oss som är helt oöverbrygglig; vi kan kommunicera, men vi har alltid ett sista steg av individualitet mellan oss. Detta innebär ju att en beskrivning av världen alltid kommer att vila i subjektivitet. Var, hur, och på vilket sätt den gör det, är dock svårt att svara på.
Vårt "jag" är alltså både en illusion, men ställer också till en hel del reella problem som verkar bottna i ett fysiskt faktum. Detta är ju såklart problematiskt, men jag tror att det i just denna paradoxikalitet vilar en hel del frågor som vi faktiskt kan besvara. Hur vet jag inte!
: ))
Citat:
Just det! Det är såklart svårt att definiera var din väninna tycker han är ful och var du tycker han är snygg. Får ni samma objektiva bild och pålägger olika värden, eller ser ni rent utav helt olika saker? Går det överhuvudtaget att beskriva exakt hur en person ser ut för någon annan utan att nämna subjektiva ord som "snygg"? Blir den beskrivningen isåfall otillfredsställande?
För att återgå till det ursprungliga ämnet men även tangera det som nyss sagts, så sa ju Sartre att vi människor har en mur mellan oss som är helt oöverbrygglig; vi kan kommunicera, men vi har alltid ett sista steg av individualitet mellan oss. Detta innebär ju att en beskrivning av världen alltid kommer att vila i subjektivitet. Var, hur, och på vilket sätt den gör det, är dock svårt att svara på.
Vårt "jag" är alltså både en illusion, men ställer också till en hel del reella problem som verkar bottna i ett fysiskt faktum. Detta är ju såklart problematiskt, men jag tror att det i just denna paradoxikalitet vilar en hel del frågor som vi faktiskt kan besvara. Hur vet jag inte!
: ))
För att återgå till det ursprungliga ämnet men även tangera det som nyss sagts, så sa ju Sartre att vi människor har en mur mellan oss som är helt oöverbrygglig; vi kan kommunicera, men vi har alltid ett sista steg av individualitet mellan oss. Detta innebär ju att en beskrivning av världen alltid kommer att vila i subjektivitet. Var, hur, och på vilket sätt den gör det, är dock svårt att svara på.
Vårt "jag" är alltså både en illusion, men ställer också till en hel del reella problem som verkar bottna i ett fysiskt faktum. Detta är ju såklart problematiskt, men jag tror att det i just denna paradoxikalitet vilar en hel del frågor som vi faktiskt kan besvara. Hur vet jag inte!
: ))
Ja och det ena är det andliga inom oss och det andra fläsket(kroppen)fysiska. Så tror jag. Det andliga är illusionen och kroppen vårt fysiska fängelse eller ett måste här på jorden.
Jag(andligheten) Du (kroppen)= Du(andligheten Jag(kroppen) Kroppen är svaret(kanske)
Citat:
Ja, det var i princip detta som jag hade tänkt skriva (ifall jag hade haft orken samt tiden dvs). Vi tänker likadant (pun intended).Nja, jag vill långt ifrån hävda att jag svarat på din fråga. Det är en mycket intressant typ av frågeställning som är svår att formulera på ett adekvat sätt, och därför lika svår att tolka och besvara. Jag tolkar att det du menar med ett fenomenalistiskt perspektiv är att det trots allt är mentala objekt vi diskuterar. Intressant är därför att ställa frågan: är jaget enbart ett konstruerat mentalt objekt, eller tillhör det vår hjärna som en fysisk process sedan födseln? Eftersom vi redan accepterat att jaget är en social konstruktion så bör det också följa att det är ett rent mentalt objekt. Håller du med?
Citat:
Intressanta tankegångar. Här är ett annat alternativ som är snarlikt men till viss del modifierat:
Vidare. Om ett "jag" springer ur social interaktion bör "jaget" också definieras utav denna. "Jaget" definieras således som "den delen av världen vilken berörs av konsekvenser från ett specifikt handlande". Nu börjar det bli riktigt intressant. Detta handlande (t.ex. du talar med din vän) har alltså en konsekvens enbart för en viss del av världen. Kan det vara så, att i brist på något objekt att tillskriva denna konsekvens, ens hjärna helt enkelt skapar ett mentalt objekt som får denna konsekvens som egenskap?
Rupert Sheldrake har en idé som går ut på att medvetandet emanerar utifrån mitten av "medvetandet", "jag-känslan" eller "självet". Detta betyder alltså att medvetandet är allting som finns inom medvetandet för tillfället.
Vissa forskare inom spetsvetenskapen har presenterat en modell av verkligheten som jag förmodar att du är bekant med. Det jag syftar på är alltså multiverse.
Inom religion så finns det ett koncept som går under benämningen sahasrara, även kallat "The Flower of Life".
Slutledning: skulle det kunna vara så att medvetande som sådan har en sfärisk form och att det existerar x antal medvetanden > när man sammanställer dessa så bildas (eller avbildas?) verkligheten, dvs. kosmos/universum.
Tips: kolla upp The Flower of Life symbolen (edit: tänker främst på denna variant http://tinyurl.com/oa853jl) ifall du inte har sett den innan. Är inte sahasrara och multivers samma sak eller åtminstone väldigt lika varandra?
__________________
Senast redigerad av morpdeus 2014-09-26 kl. 18:34.
Senast redigerad av morpdeus 2014-09-26 kl. 18:34.
Citat:
Mina förslag vore Yang (det manliga och universums drivkraft), "Det som upplever" eller Gud. Nu är dessa förslag inte klart definierade och vissa kan möjligtvis ses som en och samma sak.
Alla objekt, alla känslor, alla tankar; allting är speglar som man kan titta in i för att leta efter "jaget", för allt är saker som upplevs. Upplevelsen blir att det inte går att hitta något jag, det som finns är just känslor, tankar och så vidare. Frågan är väl då vem det är som gör den upptäckten?
Mer utförligt exempel: säg att du känner dig ledsen, eller nere, eller trött eller nåt annat som du finner neutralt eller negativt. Då blir ofta tanken "jag är nere". Undersök vem det är som "jag" handlar om i det fallet, utan att tänka att det är uppenbart eller nåt sånt. Försök hitta jaget som "jag" pekar på. Försök hitta det "jag" som är nere.
Mer utförligt exempel: säg att du känner dig ledsen, eller nere, eller trött eller nåt annat som du finner neutralt eller negativt. Då blir ofta tanken "jag är nere". Undersök vem det är som "jag" handlar om i det fallet, utan att tänka att det är uppenbart eller nåt sånt. Försök hitta jaget som "jag" pekar på. Försök hitta det "jag" som är nere.
"Consciousness alone is.
All else is an appearance arising within it. Including all thoughts of there being a separate entity called “I", or you, or even the rest of the entire "outside" world.
All is consciousness. All is within. Not within “me”, but within consciousness itself, in which this avatar I call “myself" is nothing but an apparent appearance.
Everything appearing within consciousness is nothing but a dream, which is every possible thing experienced, sensed, perceived, believed, or known.
There is nothing that could exist "outside" of this all-pervading consciousness that is all that you know.
There is only consciousness, which is the totality of this “awakeness” you and I both feel, which we can only express as "I Am".
I Am, and I know that I Am—this I am certain. “I" exist. Not “me" the person, not me the so-called personality, but this aware presence that I seem to be.
My I Am-ness alone is real, nothing else is. Everything else is nothing but an unreal thought-object appearing within it.
This consciousness that I Am is all-pervading. It is omnipresent and omniscient. It is Absolute Reality. It is all I ever know since this “I” that I am is consciousness itself.
I Am That. I Am.
There is no personal me, as that is nothing but an illusion arising within the totality of the purity which is this unadorned presence of I Am.
When I think of myself as separate, I seem to be. But, when I know myself as impersonal, selfless Beingness, I realize that my I Am-ness is universal, interdependent, and co-arising with the totality of the whole.
There is no person to protect or defend. There is no separate individual called me who needs this or that to feel one way or another. There is nothing to avoid or resist. There is nothing to desire, as there is no sense of lack. For what could consciousness need? All such nonsense is nothing but an egoic illusion which only appears real when its apparent existence is believed in by the desperately seeking mind.
Drop all pretence. Drop all assumptions. Disbelieve every previously accepted belief. See through the fallacy of your conditioning. You are not what you have been taught ever since you were a child.
A lie believed seems real. Whereas, a lie seen through, with absolute clarity, is realized as being entirely nonexistent, right from the start.
Once you realize the mirage of your separate human-hood to be the illusion it truly is, its false image can no longer deceive you.
Consciousness is the only power, so to speak. There are no other forces at play. There is nothing else, as even the universe as we know it exists as nothing but an apparent appearance of phenomena within it. Therefore, there are no separate good or evil powers. There is no "thing" right, and there is no "thing" wrong. How could the only thing that “is” be a mistake? Consciousness is the absolute totality! Everything arising within it is just a part of its cosmic play.
Nothing is at it appears. Nothing is as it seems.
When one knows this through a direct experience of awakened realization, you will just leave the world alone. It will no longer serve you, as you are aware that the world (and others) don’t exist as they're perceived. You no longer feel the pull of the world's temptations, or its drama, or its seemingly divisive nature, or of its apparent human comedy and tragedy.
All duality is imagined.
Any sense of separation or individuality is nothing but a thought arising with the total emptiness of consciousness, in which all is but an illusory movement of mind.
There is only unicity, despite all apparent multiplicity and diversity. There is only One—and that is Consciousness—otherwise known as your Self. There is only this one Self, which is this sense of I Am arising within the untold billions of all apparent sentient beings. There is only One who is truly Being, and that One, is Consciousness.
The world has given many names to this non-dual Nothingness that is the Absolute, but the "word" is never the reality. So drop all such words, as they only serve to distract from That which is here and now. Empty yourself of conditioned beliefs. Just Be.
There is nothing to do. There is nothing to be or become. Just Be—completely empty—empty of belief. When you allow yourself to be empty, the fullness and beauty of the Absolute Reality will permeate you with the bliss of true Knowing.
Consciousness alone is.
There is nothing but That—and this I Am-ness that I know I am, is That.
I Am That!"
- Zen
-----------------------------
"Gud sade: ”Jag är den jag är. Säg dem att han som heter ’Jag är’ har sänt dig till dem.” Och Gud fortsatte: ”Säg israeliterna att Herren, deras fäders Gud, Abrahams Gud, Isaks Gud och Jakobs Gud, har sänt dig till dem. Detta skall vara mitt namn för all framtid; med det namnet skall jag åkallas från släkte till släkte."
Andra Moseboken 3:14-15
"Jesus sade till honom: "Jag är vägen och sanningen och livet. Ingen kommer till Fadern utom genom mig."
Johannes 14:6
All else is an appearance arising within it. Including all thoughts of there being a separate entity called “I", or you, or even the rest of the entire "outside" world.
All is consciousness. All is within. Not within “me”, but within consciousness itself, in which this avatar I call “myself" is nothing but an apparent appearance.
Everything appearing within consciousness is nothing but a dream, which is every possible thing experienced, sensed, perceived, believed, or known.
There is nothing that could exist "outside" of this all-pervading consciousness that is all that you know.
There is only consciousness, which is the totality of this “awakeness” you and I both feel, which we can only express as "I Am".
I Am, and I know that I Am—this I am certain. “I" exist. Not “me" the person, not me the so-called personality, but this aware presence that I seem to be.
My I Am-ness alone is real, nothing else is. Everything else is nothing but an unreal thought-object appearing within it.
This consciousness that I Am is all-pervading. It is omnipresent and omniscient. It is Absolute Reality. It is all I ever know since this “I” that I am is consciousness itself.
I Am That. I Am.
There is no personal me, as that is nothing but an illusion arising within the totality of the purity which is this unadorned presence of I Am.
When I think of myself as separate, I seem to be. But, when I know myself as impersonal, selfless Beingness, I realize that my I Am-ness is universal, interdependent, and co-arising with the totality of the whole.
There is no person to protect or defend. There is no separate individual called me who needs this or that to feel one way or another. There is nothing to avoid or resist. There is nothing to desire, as there is no sense of lack. For what could consciousness need? All such nonsense is nothing but an egoic illusion which only appears real when its apparent existence is believed in by the desperately seeking mind.
Drop all pretence. Drop all assumptions. Disbelieve every previously accepted belief. See through the fallacy of your conditioning. You are not what you have been taught ever since you were a child.
A lie believed seems real. Whereas, a lie seen through, with absolute clarity, is realized as being entirely nonexistent, right from the start.
Once you realize the mirage of your separate human-hood to be the illusion it truly is, its false image can no longer deceive you.
Consciousness is the only power, so to speak. There are no other forces at play. There is nothing else, as even the universe as we know it exists as nothing but an apparent appearance of phenomena within it. Therefore, there are no separate good or evil powers. There is no "thing" right, and there is no "thing" wrong. How could the only thing that “is” be a mistake? Consciousness is the absolute totality! Everything arising within it is just a part of its cosmic play.
Nothing is at it appears. Nothing is as it seems.
When one knows this through a direct experience of awakened realization, you will just leave the world alone. It will no longer serve you, as you are aware that the world (and others) don’t exist as they're perceived. You no longer feel the pull of the world's temptations, or its drama, or its seemingly divisive nature, or of its apparent human comedy and tragedy.
All duality is imagined.
Any sense of separation or individuality is nothing but a thought arising with the total emptiness of consciousness, in which all is but an illusory movement of mind.
There is only unicity, despite all apparent multiplicity and diversity. There is only One—and that is Consciousness—otherwise known as your Self. There is only this one Self, which is this sense of I Am arising within the untold billions of all apparent sentient beings. There is only One who is truly Being, and that One, is Consciousness.
The world has given many names to this non-dual Nothingness that is the Absolute, but the "word" is never the reality. So drop all such words, as they only serve to distract from That which is here and now. Empty yourself of conditioned beliefs. Just Be.
There is nothing to do. There is nothing to be or become. Just Be—completely empty—empty of belief. When you allow yourself to be empty, the fullness and beauty of the Absolute Reality will permeate you with the bliss of true Knowing.
Consciousness alone is.
There is nothing but That—and this I Am-ness that I know I am, is That.
I Am That!"
- Zen
-----------------------------
"Gud sade: ”Jag är den jag är. Säg dem att han som heter ’Jag är’ har sänt dig till dem.” Och Gud fortsatte: ”Säg israeliterna att Herren, deras fäders Gud, Abrahams Gud, Isaks Gud och Jakobs Gud, har sänt dig till dem. Detta skall vara mitt namn för all framtid; med det namnet skall jag åkallas från släkte till släkte."
Andra Moseboken 3:14-15
"Jesus sade till honom: "Jag är vägen och sanningen och livet. Ingen kommer till Fadern utom genom mig."
Johannes 14:6
__________________
Senast redigerad av Skogismyra 2018-12-22 kl. 18:16.
Senast redigerad av Skogismyra 2018-12-22 kl. 18:16.
Citat:
Non-dualism är en sak, kristendom en annan. Bibelns gud är en separat entitet; världen är guds skapelse. Monoteism och non-dualism är väldigt olika. Monism och non-dualism är däremot lika."Consciousness alone is.
All else is an appearance arising within it. Including all thoughts of there being a separate entity called “I", or you, or even the rest of the entire "outside" world.
All is consciousness. All is within. Not within “me”, but within consciousness itself, in which this avatar I call “myself" is nothing but an apparent appearance.
Everything appearing within consciousness is nothing but a dream, which is every possible thing experienced, sensed, perceived, believed, or known.
There is nothing that could exist "outside" of this all-pervading consciousness that is all that you know.
There is only consciousness, which is the totality of this “awakeness” you and I both feel, which we can only express as "I Am".
I Am, and I know that I Am—this I am certain. “I" exist. Not “me" the person, not me the so-called personality, but this aware presence that I seem to be.
My I Am-ness alone is real, nothing else is. Everything else is nothing but an unreal thought-object appearing within it.
This consciousness that I Am is all-pervading. It is omnipresent and omniscient. It is Absolute Reality. It is all I ever know since this “I” that I am is consciousness itself.
I Am That. I Am.
There is no personal me, as that is nothing but an illusion arising within the totality of the purity which is this unadorned presence of I Am.
When I think of myself as separate, I seem to be. But, when I know myself as impersonal, selfless Beingness, I realize that my I Am-ness is universal, interdependent, and co-arising with the totality of the whole.
There is no person to protect or defend. There is no separate individual called me who needs this or that to feel one way or another. There is nothing to avoid or resist. There is nothing to desire, as there is no sense of lack. For what could consciousness need? All such nonsense is nothing but an egoic illusion which only appears real when its apparent existence is believed in by the desperately seeking mind.
Drop all pretence. Drop all assumptions. Disbelieve every previously accepted belief. See through the fallacy of your conditioning. You are not what you have been taught ever since you were a child.
A lie believed seems real. Whereas, a lie seen through, with absolute clarity, is realized as being entirely nonexistent, right from the start.
Once you realize the mirage of your separate human-hood to be the illusion it truly is, its false image can no longer deceive you.
Consciousness is the only power, so to speak. There are no other forces at play. There is nothing else, as even the universe as we know it exists as nothing but an apparent appearance of phenomena within it. Therefore, there are no separate good or evil powers. There is no "thing" right, and there is no "thing" wrong. How could the only thing that “is” be a mistake? Consciousness is the absolute totality! Everything arising within it is just a part of its cosmic play.
Nothing is at it appears. Nothing is as it seems.
When one knows this through a direct experience of awakened realization, you will just leave the world alone. It will no longer serve you, as you are aware that the world (and others) don’t exist as they're perceived. You no longer feel the pull of the world's temptations, or its drama, or its seemingly divisive nature, or of its apparent human comedy and tragedy.
All duality is imagined.
Any sense of separation or individuality is nothing but a thought arising with the total emptiness of consciousness, in which all is but an illusory movement of mind.
There is only unicity, despite all apparent multiplicity and diversity. There is only One—and that is Consciousness—otherwise known as your Self. There is only this one Self, which is this sense of I Am arising within the untold billions of all apparent sentient beings. There is only One who is truly Being, and that One, is Consciousness.
The world has given many names to this non-dual Nothingness that is the Absolute, but the "word" is never the reality. So drop all such words, as they only serve to distract from That which is here and now. Empty yourself of conditioned beliefs. Just Be.
There is nothing to do. There is nothing to be or become. Just Be—completely empty—empty of belief. When you allow yourself to be empty, the fullness and beauty of the Absolute Reality will permeate you with the bliss of true Knowing.
Consciousness alone is.
There is nothing but That—and this I Am-ness that I know I am, is That.
I Am That!"
- Zen
-----------------------------
"Gud sade: ”Jag är den jag är. Säg dem att han som heter ’Jag är’ har sänt dig till dem.” Och Gud fortsatte: ”Säg israeliterna att Herren, deras fäders Gud, Abrahams Gud, Isaks Gud och Jakobs Gud, har sänt dig till dem. Detta skall vara mitt namn för all framtid; med det namnet skall jag åkallas från släkte till släkte."
Andra Moseboken 3:14-15
"Jesus sade till honom: "Jag är vägen och sanningen och livet. Ingen kommer till Fadern utom genom mig."
Johannes 14:6
All else is an appearance arising within it. Including all thoughts of there being a separate entity called “I", or you, or even the rest of the entire "outside" world.
All is consciousness. All is within. Not within “me”, but within consciousness itself, in which this avatar I call “myself" is nothing but an apparent appearance.
Everything appearing within consciousness is nothing but a dream, which is every possible thing experienced, sensed, perceived, believed, or known.
There is nothing that could exist "outside" of this all-pervading consciousness that is all that you know.
There is only consciousness, which is the totality of this “awakeness” you and I both feel, which we can only express as "I Am".
I Am, and I know that I Am—this I am certain. “I" exist. Not “me" the person, not me the so-called personality, but this aware presence that I seem to be.
My I Am-ness alone is real, nothing else is. Everything else is nothing but an unreal thought-object appearing within it.
This consciousness that I Am is all-pervading. It is omnipresent and omniscient. It is Absolute Reality. It is all I ever know since this “I” that I am is consciousness itself.
I Am That. I Am.
There is no personal me, as that is nothing but an illusion arising within the totality of the purity which is this unadorned presence of I Am.
When I think of myself as separate, I seem to be. But, when I know myself as impersonal, selfless Beingness, I realize that my I Am-ness is universal, interdependent, and co-arising with the totality of the whole.
There is no person to protect or defend. There is no separate individual called me who needs this or that to feel one way or another. There is nothing to avoid or resist. There is nothing to desire, as there is no sense of lack. For what could consciousness need? All such nonsense is nothing but an egoic illusion which only appears real when its apparent existence is believed in by the desperately seeking mind.
Drop all pretence. Drop all assumptions. Disbelieve every previously accepted belief. See through the fallacy of your conditioning. You are not what you have been taught ever since you were a child.
A lie believed seems real. Whereas, a lie seen through, with absolute clarity, is realized as being entirely nonexistent, right from the start.
Once you realize the mirage of your separate human-hood to be the illusion it truly is, its false image can no longer deceive you.
Consciousness is the only power, so to speak. There are no other forces at play. There is nothing else, as even the universe as we know it exists as nothing but an apparent appearance of phenomena within it. Therefore, there are no separate good or evil powers. There is no "thing" right, and there is no "thing" wrong. How could the only thing that “is” be a mistake? Consciousness is the absolute totality! Everything arising within it is just a part of its cosmic play.
Nothing is at it appears. Nothing is as it seems.
When one knows this through a direct experience of awakened realization, you will just leave the world alone. It will no longer serve you, as you are aware that the world (and others) don’t exist as they're perceived. You no longer feel the pull of the world's temptations, or its drama, or its seemingly divisive nature, or of its apparent human comedy and tragedy.
All duality is imagined.
Any sense of separation or individuality is nothing but a thought arising with the total emptiness of consciousness, in which all is but an illusory movement of mind.
There is only unicity, despite all apparent multiplicity and diversity. There is only One—and that is Consciousness—otherwise known as your Self. There is only this one Self, which is this sense of I Am arising within the untold billions of all apparent sentient beings. There is only One who is truly Being, and that One, is Consciousness.
The world has given many names to this non-dual Nothingness that is the Absolute, but the "word" is never the reality. So drop all such words, as they only serve to distract from That which is here and now. Empty yourself of conditioned beliefs. Just Be.
There is nothing to do. There is nothing to be or become. Just Be—completely empty—empty of belief. When you allow yourself to be empty, the fullness and beauty of the Absolute Reality will permeate you with the bliss of true Knowing.
Consciousness alone is.
There is nothing but That—and this I Am-ness that I know I am, is That.
I Am That!"
- Zen
-----------------------------
"Gud sade: ”Jag är den jag är. Säg dem att han som heter ’Jag är’ har sänt dig till dem.” Och Gud fortsatte: ”Säg israeliterna att Herren, deras fäders Gud, Abrahams Gud, Isaks Gud och Jakobs Gud, har sänt dig till dem. Detta skall vara mitt namn för all framtid; med det namnet skall jag åkallas från släkte till släkte."
Andra Moseboken 3:14-15
"Jesus sade till honom: "Jag är vägen och sanningen och livet. Ingen kommer till Fadern utom genom mig."
Johannes 14:6
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